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Old 09-08-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 411,621 times
Reputation: 783

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This is to provide more clarity for what I was speaking about. This does not differentiate between titles.

Education Requirements

To meet the professional education requirement for licensure as a Mental Health Counselor, you must present evidence of receiving a master's or doctoral degree in counseling from a program that is:

registered by the Department as licensure qualifying;
accredited as a mental health counseling program of 60 semester hours by the Commission on the Accreditation of Counseling Related Education Programs (CACREP) or another acceptable accrediting agency; or
determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of such a registered or accredited program.
A program located outside the United States and its territories may be used to satisfy the professional education requirement if it:

prepares individuals for the professional practice of Mental Health Counseling; and
is recognized by the appropriate civil authorities of that jurisdiction; and
can be appropriately verified; and
is determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of a registered licensure qualifying or acceptable accredited master's or doctoral program in counseling.
Substantial Equivalence

To be considered substantially equivalent, your program must include at least 60 semester hours, or the equivalent, of graduate study that contains curricular content that includes but is not limited to the following areas:

human growth and development;
social and cultural foundations of counseling;
counseling theory and practice;
psychopathology;
group dynamics;
lifestyle and career development;
assessment and appraisal of individuals, couples, families and groups;
research and program evaluation;
professional orientation and ethics;
foundations of Mental Health Counseling and consultation;
clinical instruction; and
include a minimum one year supervised internship or practicum in Mental Health Counseling where one year means at least 600 clock hours.

NYS Mental Health Counseling:License Requirements
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:53 PM
 
15,744 posts, read 13,176,204 times
Reputation: 19636
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
Well yes, because the PhD is a research degree. But lots of writers and researchers have EdDs. There is one professor in my current program who has an EdD, a PhD, an MBA *and* a law degree! He is a delightful and modest person.

When I attended law school, there was a physician who sat next to me in Contracts who insisted on being called by his first name rather than doctor. There are plenty of double docs out there, and some with law degrees, as well.
Ok.

You asked if it was true that EdD are not very respected. I was just explaining why that is true.
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:28 PM
 
5,643 posts, read 5,108,075 times
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PhDs have to write a dissertation, usually at least a 100 pages of original research. They are also required to be full time students at some point in most programs. A lot of time is spent learning educational theory.

EdDs are generally practitioner degrees, meant for future principals and superintendents, etc. A great deal of time is spent on "practice", and some variant of a position paper is required to graduate, which is shorter and no where as involved as a dissertation. A lot of EdD programs can be completed partime.

Education advanced degrees in general are not terribly respected in academia and that's triple true of EdDs for the reasons I mentioned. It's not as theoretical and the research/writing requirement is nowhere near as rigorous. However there are some MAJOR caveats:

There are a good amount EdD programs that have the exact same requirements as PhD programs, plus some of the most prestigious grad programs in education (like Harvard and some of the UPenn options) only offer the EdD. So not all EdDs are created equal.

Depending on what you want to do with the degree either option can work, but choose wisely.

Last edited by Tinawina; 09-08-2017 at 09:49 PM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 09:35 PM
 
2,198 posts, read 1,229,345 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinawina View Post
PhDs have to write a dissertation, usually at least a 100 pages of original research. They are also required to be full time students at some point in most programs. A lot of time is spent teaching theory.

EdDs are generally practitioner degrees, meant for future principals and superintendents, etc. A great deal of time is spent on "practice", and some variant of a position paper is required to graduate, which is shorter and no where as involved as a dissertation. A lot of EdD programs can be completed partime.

Education advanced degrees in general are not terribly respected in academia and that's triple true of EdDs for the reasons I mentioned. However there are some MAJOR caveats:

There are a good amount EdD programs that have the exact same requirements as PhD programs, plus some of the most prestigious grad programs in education (like Harvard and some of the UPenn options) only offer the EdD. So not all EdDs are created equal.

Depending on what you want to do with the degree either option can work, but choose wisely.
I was going to respond, but Tinawina pretty much said what I was going to say (I just had to wade through several pages to see that). OP, if you're interested in going into actual practice in an established setting (such as school), an EdD is a perfectly respectable degree. The amount of work that goes into that degree varies. A PhD generally has a much larger emphasis on research, sometimes without the practice emphasis and sometimes it has equal emphasis with practice and research.

And I'm just adding support to the idea that anything less than a doctoral degree cannot ethically use the term "psychologist" with the exception of masters or EdS level school psychologists who MUST use "school" as a modifier in the term. Not all psychologists are licensed in their state-- some work in places that don't require licensure or work in research, which doesn't require licensure. Private practice psychologists must be licensed. Mental health licenses or other types of licensure with limited practice allowed can be gotten at a masters level.
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:13 PM
 
6,762 posts, read 9,747,811 times
Reputation: 5054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
This is to provide more clarity for what I was speaking about. This does not differentiate between titles.

Education Requirements

To meet the professional education requirement for licensure as a Mental Health Counselor, you must present evidence of receiving a master's or doctoral degree in counseling from a program that is:

registered by the Department as licensure qualifying;
accredited as a mental health counseling program of 60 semester hours by the Commission on the Accreditation of Counseling Related Education Programs (CACREP) or another acceptable accrediting agency; or
determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of such a registered or accredited program.
A program located outside the United States and its territories may be used to satisfy the professional education requirement if it:

prepares individuals for the professional practice of Mental Health Counseling; and
is recognized by the appropriate civil authorities of that jurisdiction; and
can be appropriately verified; and
is determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of a registered licensure qualifying or acceptable accredited master's or doctoral program in counseling.
Substantial Equivalence

To be considered substantially equivalent, your program must include at least 60 semester hours, or the equivalent, of graduate study that contains curricular content that includes but is not limited to the following areas:

human growth and development;
social and cultural foundations of counseling;
counseling theory and practice;
psychopathology;
group dynamics;
lifestyle and career development;
assessment and appraisal of individuals, couples, families and groups;
research and program evaluation;
professional orientation and ethics;
foundations of Mental Health Counseling and consultation;
clinical instruction; and
include a minimum one year supervised internship or practicum in Mental Health Counseling where one year means at least 600 clock hours.

NYS Mental Health Counseling:License Requirements
This doesn't provide any clarity. Those are the qualifications to become a mental health counselor, not a psychologist. Once again, you NEED a doctoral degree in psychology to become a psychologist in all but a couple of states. Some states have lower requirements for school psychologists, as mentioned above, but this is a different license, and they are restricted in what they can do. You only need a master's to become a counselor. You also don't need a degree in psychology to become a counselor. As a matter of fact, most master's degree programs in psychology are not designed to meet the requirements to become a counselor, and CACREP does not accredit psychology programs. Many, if not most, licensed counselors have degrees in counseling.

Of course, they aren't going to tell you that you can't qualify if you have a doctorate instead of a master's. In Texas, a lot of people become licensed chemical dependency counselors with master's or doctoral degrees, but you only need an associate's degree. Counselors cannot call themselves psychologists, and they can't do everything that psychologists are allowed to do under law.

Last edited by L210; 09-08-2017 at 11:25 PM..
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Old 09-08-2017, 11:35 PM
 
6,762 posts, read 9,747,811 times
Reputation: 5054
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
Well, the people who are practising (that I'm aware of ~ both from classroom and professional settings) may not be psychologists. I do know they can see patients and they don't have Ph.D.'s. My health insurance has a whole list of Master's Level mental health counseling for people to choose from. I could very well be wrong about their title (psycho analysis, vs. psychology, vs. Psychiatrist.)


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ther...alytic-therapy

Then there is experiential counselling where a therapist will use any number of methods to help her client. Not all of it is Freudian. Gestalt, and other more modern approaches.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-ab...estalt-therapy

I am speaking about those individuals who do not have a Doctoral Degree, who in fact counsel patients as to their emotional well being and other life problems. They exist. They may not be called Psychologists. In my state, you can not practice medicine without a license. I have to therefore, assume they have a license to practice "therapy."
Psychiatrists are physicians. They go to medical school to earn an MD or DO. It's important to understand the difference between all these titles because they have different scopes of practice. For example, psychiatrists can prescribe medication in every state. Only a handful of states allow psychologists to prescribe medications, and this is after they earn a master's in pharmacology in addition to their doctorate. No state allows counselors to prescribe medications. No state allows anyone with just a master's in psychology to prescribe medication.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
In NYS Master's Level degrees allows individuals set up shop and treat individuals and families. Now, since no one in NYS can practice any form of counseling (therapeutic, group, marital) or otherwise they have a license. Where they get it is likely from the governing organization of the State of New York. Does it equal licensure that Psychologists must have? Don't know. That's not my point. My point is:

There are Nurse Practictioner's
Those with Master's Level Education

counseling and providing therapeutic help for those who need it.
Psychiatric nurse practitioners are not psychologists. There are things nurse practitioners can do that psychologists can't do, and there are things psychologists can do that nurse practitioners can't do. I had to be psychologically evaluated in Texas to become a corrections officer. I had to go to a psychologist or psychiatrist. I couldn't go to a nurse practitioner, counselor, therapist, or social worker.
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Old 09-09-2017, 07:15 AM
 
Location: Dunwoody,GA
1,861 posts, read 4,555,452 times
Reputation: 1932
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
In NYS Master's Level degrees allows individuals set up shop and treat individuals and families. Now, since no one in NYS can practice any form of counseling (therapeutic, group, marital) or otherwise they have a license. Where they get it is likely from the governing organization of the State of New York. Does it equal licensure that Psychologists must have? Don't know. That's not my point. My point is:

There are Nurse Practictioner's
Those with Master's Level Education

counseling and providing therapeutic help for those who need it.
Yes, folks with LCSW's, LPC's, and the like can practice, but they cannot call themselves "psychologists." That's the point. Like I said, titles like "therapist" and "counselor" are not protected in the same way. There are Boards for social workers and other mental health professionals that govern their practices.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:24 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 411,621 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
This doesn't provide any clarity. Those are the qualifications to become a mental health counselor, not a psychologist. Once again, you NEED a doctoral degree in psychology to become a psychologist in all but a couple of states. Some states have lower requirements for school psychologists, as mentioned above, but this is a different license, and they are restricted in what they can do. You only need a master's to become a counselor. You also don't need a degree in psychology to become a counselor. As a matter of fact, most master's degree programs in psychology are not designed to meet the requirements to become a counselor, and CACREP does not accredit psychology programs. Many, if not most, licensed counselors have degrees in counseling.

Of course, they aren't going to tell you that you can't qualify if you have a doctorate instead of a master's. In Texas, a lot of people become licensed chemical dependency counselors with master's or doctoral degrees, but you only need an associate's degree. Counselors cannot call themselves psychologists, and they can't do everything that psychologists are allowed to do under law.
I already stated that the titles were confusing (for me).
I already said that Master's Level counseling (pyschological/mental health) can be done in NYS with a Master's Degree.
I know this for a fact, because I've had more than one; chosen from my own healthcare plan. I won't keep repeating this. I posted a whole response prior to this thread about my use of the title "Psychology." You obviously didn't read it.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:27 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 411,621 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMMom View Post
Yes, folks with LCSW's, LPC's, and the like can practice, but they cannot call themselves "psychologists." That's the point. Like I said, titles like "therapist" and "counselor" are not protected in the same way. There are Boards for social workers and other mental health professionals that govern their practices.
Thank you @CMom. I know they can do something with a Master's Degree (Therapists/Counselors). There's too many of them doing it who are licensed in my state. I guess my misunderstanding (that I pointed out was the exclusivity of the titles for these professions.
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Old 09-09-2017, 12:29 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 411,621 times
Reputation: 783
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
This is to provide more clarity for what I was speaking about. This does not differentiate between titles.

Education Requirements

To meet the professional education requirement for licensure as a Mental Health Counselor, you must present evidence of receiving a master's or doctoral degree in counseling from a program that is:

registered by the Department as licensure qualifying;
accredited as a mental health counseling program of 60 semester hours by the Commission on the Accreditation of Counseling Related Education Programs (CACREP) or another acceptable accrediting agency; or
determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of such a registered or accredited program.
A program located outside the United States and its territories may be used to satisfy the professional education requirement if it:

prepares individuals for the professional practice of Mental Health Counseling; and
is recognized by the appropriate civil authorities of that jurisdiction; and
can be appropriately verified; and
is determined by the Department to be the substantial equivalent of a registered licensure qualifying or acceptable accredited master's or doctoral program in counseling.
Substantial Equivalence

To be considered substantially equivalent, your program must include at least 60 semester hours, or the equivalent, of graduate study that contains curricular content that includes but is not limited to the following areas:

human growth and development;
social and cultural foundations of counseling;
counseling theory and practice;
psychopathology;
group dynamics;
lifestyle and career development;
assessment and appraisal of individuals, couples, families and groups;
research and program evaluation;
professional orientation and ethics;
foundations of Mental Health Counseling and consultation;
clinical instruction; and
include a minimum one year supervised internship or practicum in Mental Health Counseling where one year means at least 600 clock hours.

NYS Mental Health Counseling:License Requirements
This was to also clarify that there are some kinds of practitioners who don't have Doctoral Degrees who in fact are licensed to do their job and are not fly by night (as in hanging a shingle) and setting up a practice.
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