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Old 09-09-2017, 12:37 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 412,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
Well, the people who are practising (that I'm aware of ~ both from classroom and professional settings) may not be psychologists. I do know they can see patients and they don't have Ph.D.'s. My health insurance has a whole list of Master's Level mental health counseling for people to choose from. I could very well be wrong about their title (psycho analysis, vs. psychology, vs. Psychiatrist.)


https://www.psychologytoday.com/ther...alytic-therapy

Then there is experiential counselling where a therapist will use any number of methods to help her client. Not all of it is Freudian. Gestalt, and other more modern approaches.

https://www.goodtherapy.org/learn-ab...estalt-therapy

I am speaking about those individuals who do not have a Doctoral Degree, who in fact counsel patients as to their emotional well being and other life problems. They exist. They may not be called Psychologists. In my state, you can not practice medicine without a license. I have to therefore, assume they have a license to practice "therapy."


Like I said above, OK they may not psychologists (I didn't know the difference were so tight)
However, some folks have license to practice in my state (whatever their titles are) at the Master's Level
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Old 09-09-2017, 01:35 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 412,997 times
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Here is another link that helps to sift through the titles by state.

There are currently twenty-five states which license masters - level psychologists to practice
psychology, either independently or under continuing supervision. Other states are moving
forward or considering legislative initiatives.

Nine states currently license masters - level psychologists to practice independently
under various titles of licensure as described below


Alaska: Psychological Associate
Arkansas: Psychological Examiner (New Statute)
Kansas: Licensed Clinical Psychotherapist
Kentucky: Licensed Psychological Practitioner
Oklahoma: Licensed Behavioral Practitioner
Oregon: Psychological Associate
Tennessee: Licensed Senior Psychological Examiner
Vermont: Psychologists - Masters
West Virginia: Psychologist

Interesting that New York isn't one. Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.enamp.org/PDF/Licensure%2...ion%20NAMP.pdf
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Old 09-10-2017, 05:56 PM
 
6,768 posts, read 9,757,198 times
Reputation: 5069
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
Here is another link that helps to sift through the titles by state.

There are currently twenty-five states which license masters - level psychologists to practice
psychology, either independently or under continuing supervision. Other states are moving
forward or considering legislative initiatives.

Nine states currently license masters - level psychologists to practice independently
under various titles of licensure as described below


Alaska: Psychological Associate
Arkansas: Psychological Examiner (New Statute)
Kansas: Licensed Clinical Psychotherapist
Kentucky: Licensed Psychological Practitioner
Oklahoma: Licensed Behavioral Practitioner
Oregon: Psychological Associate
Tennessee: Licensed Senior Psychological Examiner
Vermont: Psychologists - Masters
West Virginia: Psychologist

Interesting that New York isn't one. Anyway, here's the link:

http://www.enamp.org/PDF/Licensure%2...ion%20NAMP.pdf

Most of those are NOT psychologists. You only listed two states that license psychologists at the master's level. There are NOT 25 states that license master's-level psychologists. There aren't even nine states.

And, that PDF you provided uses the word "psychologist" inaccurately. A psychological technician or associate cannot call himself or herself a psychologist. They are called psychological technicians and associates for a reason. The reason is that they are NOT psychologists. If they were psychologists, they would be called psychologists. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Independent practice does not equal psychologist. I could practice independently as a substance abuse counselor, but I wouldn't be able to do half the stuff psychologists can do.

Last edited by L210; 09-10-2017 at 06:04 PM..
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Old 09-11-2017, 07:11 PM
 
Location: No Coordinates Found
1,236 posts, read 412,997 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Most of those are NOT psychologists. You only listed two states that license psychologists at the master's level. There are NOT 25 states that license master's-level psychologists. There aren't even nine states.

And, that PDF you provided uses the word "psychologist" inaccurately. A psychological technician or associate cannot call himself or herself a psychologist. They are called psychological technicians and associates for a reason. The reason is that they are NOT psychologists. If they were psychologists, they would be called psychologists. I don't know why this is so hard to understand. Independent practice does not equal psychologist. I could practice independently as a substance abuse counselor, but I wouldn't be able to do half the stuff psychologists can do.
Fact:

NYS allows individuals who hold only a Master's Degree to practice counseling, independently, institutionally or group therapy at only the Master's Level. Fact: They must be licensed to practice in NYS State. No way around that. These other titles don't matter to me . These titles should only concern people who have these degrees who feel that they put years of work into their studies and don't want to be deemed "insignificant." I get that. I understand it.

That is why Psychiatrists will always be considered "doctors" and not a psychologist. For a long time there was talk of allowing Psychologists to prescribe medicine. You can't. The same type of fight over titles which are not phenomenological. The debate wages on.

I can't control what organizations call their Psychologists and neither can YOU. If you saw the post above it did list the NINE states that you can't count. NINE states. I didn't make it up. If you have issue with what I provided you should prove me wrong.

If anyone holding a doctoral level degree in Psychology is in a tiff because those at the Master's level get to twist titles around (that's not my fault), nor do I care. You should champion your State's legislature regarding licensure and title usage.

Now, I have offered all I'm going to on this subject. Don't respond to me telling me I didn't prove anything, because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to tell you where "I" was coming from with my statement about those who hold Master's Degrees in my State of New York. Get over it.
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Old 09-12-2017, 05:58 AM
 
1,654 posts, read 551,999 times
Reputation: 3013
I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. Everybody knows that psychiatrists are medical doctors (MDs) with specialties in psychology. They pursue their specialty after getting their medical degree. Phychologists have academic degrees in psychology, not medical degrees. Psychologists can't prescribe meds. Doesn't matter what state you're in.
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Old 09-13-2017, 10:19 AM
 
7,295 posts, read 8,133,678 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Not correct. The word "doctor" has nothing to do with medical, despite the many who wish to believe it.
That's totally incorrect. For one example most hospitals forbid anyone other than MD and DO residents and licensed physicians from being referred to as doctor.

You wouldn't believe the lengths some NPs and PAs will go to - to blur the lines between themselves and doctors. A NP my son - he's an MD - worked around had "earned" an online history degree. She sent out communications demanding that everyone refer to her as "doctor" on the floor. Turns out she was in violation of Texas state law and hospital policy.

Doctor means a lot in medicine.
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:38 AM
 
9,360 posts, read 15,818,519 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
That's totally incorrect. For one example most hospitals forbid anyone other than MD and DO residents and licensed physicians from being referred to as doctor.

You wouldn't believe the lengths some NPs and PAs will go to - to blur the lines between themselves and doctors. A NP my son - he's an MD - worked around had "earned" an online history degree. She sent out communications demanding that everyone refer to her as "doctor" on the floor. Turns out she was in violation of Texas state law and hospital policy.

Doctor means a lot in medicine.
No, the poster is not incorrect. The hospital has established a policy possibly because people expect a doctor in a hospital setting to be a physician, and physicians are protecting what they consider to be their turf -- it has nothing to do with the history or meaning of the word. The title "Doctor" goes back to medieval Europe, and may -- but does not have to -- have anything to do with the study of medicine. I call 100% BS on your statement that a PhD that it is a violation of Texas law to call a PhD a doctor in a hospital. Apparently these Texas hospitals don't know they are violating Texas law.

https://www.texaschildrens.org/find-...race-s-kao-phd

http://gsbs.uthscsa.edu/faculty/myron-ignatius-ph.d

Have your son provide me with the Texas state code.
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Old 09-13-2017, 09:51 PM
 
6,768 posts, read 9,757,198 times
Reputation: 5069
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
Fact:

NYS allows individuals who hold only a Master's Degree to practice counseling, independently, institutionally or group therapy at only the Master's Level. Fact: They must be licensed to practice in NYS State. No way around that. These other titles don't matter to me . These titles should only concern people who have these degrees who feel that they put years of work into their studies and don't want to be deemed "insignificant." I get that. I understand it.

That is why Psychiatrists will always be considered "doctors" and not a psychologist. For a long time there was talk of allowing Psychologists to prescribe medicine. You can't. The same type of fight over titles which are not phenomenological. The debate wages on.

I can't control what organizations call their Psychologists and neither can YOU. If you saw the post above it did list the NINE states that you can't count. NINE states. I didn't make it up. If you have issue with what I provided you should prove me wrong.

If anyone holding a doctoral level degree in Psychology is in a tiff because those at the Master's level get to twist titles around (that's not my fault), nor do I care. You should champion your State's legislature regarding licensure and title usage.

Now, I have offered all I'm going to on this subject. Don't respond to me telling me I didn't prove anything, because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to tell you where "I" was coming from with my statement about those who hold Master's Degrees in my State of New York. Get over it.
You did not show nine states that license psychologists at the master's level; you only showed two. I can count, but you apparently can't read. A psychological associate or technician is not a psychologist. They have a different license for a reason. Their scope of practice is narrower. Yes, the government can control who calls themselves psychologists. They will even take you to court if you don't cease and desist. The states DO have laws on title usage.

Your state has a law that says that only licensed psychologists can call themselves psychologists, and they have to have a doctoral degree to become a psychologist.

http://www.op.nysed.gov/prof/psych/article153.htm#use

Quote:
Originally Posted by KaraZetterberg153 View Post
I'm not sure what you guys are arguing about. Everybody knows that psychiatrists are medical doctors (MDs) with specialties in psychology. They pursue their specialty after getting their medical degree. Phychologists have academic degrees in psychology, not medical degrees. Psychologists can't prescribe meds. Doesn't matter what state you're in.
Both of you are wrong. There are several states that allow psychologists to prescribe medications.

http://www.apa.org/news/press/releas...dications.aspx

Last edited by L210; 09-13-2017 at 10:07 PM..
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Old 09-13-2017, 11:07 PM
 
6,768 posts, read 9,757,198 times
Reputation: 5069
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyGoldenLife View Post
Fact:

NYS allows individuals who hold only a Master's Degree to practice counseling, independently, institutionally or group therapy at only the Master's Level. Fact: They must be licensed to practice in NYS State. No way around that. These other titles don't matter to me . These titles should only concern people who have these degrees who feel that they put years of work into their studies and don't want to be deemed "insignificant." I get that. I understand it.

That is why Psychiatrists will always be considered "doctors" and not a psychologist. For a long time there was talk of allowing Psychologists to prescribe medicine. You can't. The same type of fight over titles which are not phenomenological. The debate wages on.

I can't control what organizations call their Psychologists and neither can YOU. If you saw the post above it did list the NINE states that you can't count. NINE states. I didn't make it up. If you have issue with what I provided you should prove me wrong.

If anyone holding a doctoral level degree in Psychology is in a tiff because those at the Master's level get to twist titles around (that's not my fault), nor do I care. You should champion your State's legislature regarding licensure and title usage.

Now, I have offered all I'm going to on this subject. Don't respond to me telling me I didn't prove anything, because I'm not trying to prove anything. I'm trying to tell you where "I" was coming from with my statement about those who hold Master's Degrees in my State of New York. Get over it.
I have another example for you since I live in Texas. As defined by Texas law, psychological services are those offered by a psychologist or psychological associate. This means that other licensed mental health professionals can't advertise themselves as offering psychological services other than psychotherapy.Those with master's degrees in psychology shall be called psychological associates, examiners, technicians, or assistants. In other words, they aren't allowed to call themselves psychologists.

OCCUPATIONS CODE CHAPTER 501. PSYCHOLOGISTS
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Old 09-28-2017, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
2,880 posts, read 5,076,559 times
Reputation: 3020
Quote:
Originally Posted by joe from dayton View Post
Not only does that not make any sense, it is not true. A PhD and an EdD are both terminal degrees.
You clearly do not understand what "terminal" means.

Terminal degree. Take the required courses, # of units, and meet any residency requirements and you have your degree. A JD is terminal. An MBA is terminal. And yes, an M.D. is a terminal degree. Some Ed.D. programs are designed to be terminal in that the doctoral "dissertation" is a paper written within the context of a class or classes.

The obtaining is not a terminal degree. You can get in in three years or eight. Or not at all. While you need to satisfy course requirements and demonstrate mastery over fundamental principles, the Ph.D. dissertation is supposed to be a substantial piece of research that contributes to the body of literature in your discipline. There is no defined end point. This there is no terminus.

There are Ed.D. programs,usually a major research universities which are designed in a way similar to Ph.D. programs. There is one difference, however. What is the literature that is being mastered? Education is itself a multi- and interdisciplinary field. And the study of education is more akin to a professional program (law, business, medicine) than traditional academic scholarship leading to a Ph.D.

Of course, professional schools are recognizing both the disquiet among more scholarly students and in the schools themselves. In law, there is now the S.J.D., effectively a Ph.D. in law. In Med schools, scholarly researchers enter M.D./Ph.D. programs where they earn both. Top B-schools, over Ph.D.s. And many schools of education now offer Ph.D.s.

Disclaimer: I was in a Ed.D. program at a major research university. This question of Ed.D. vs. Ph.D. was constantly debated among students. I eventually left, not because of the anxiety over the debate, but to get a Ph.D. in a discipline.
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