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Old 11-06-2017, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Nevada side of Lake Tahoe
4,902 posts, read 2,955,461 times
Reputation: 3171

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Where does it say that college was a job training program? Who told you that? No paperwork I ever signed for college ever promised me a job. The deal was the college provided the classes and I paid for them. That's it. No other promises were made.
Some companies or jobs require a degree, you can look at a job posting online. If one wants to work at those companies or jobs, they must get a college degree.
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Old 11-06-2017, 11:36 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
3,135 posts, read 3,954,362 times
Reputation: 11030
Without reading 13 pages of posts, I'll jump right in.

I picked Ohio, since it's Rust Belt, and close to the Northeastern Megalopolis. Boy! That state has a lot of colleges. Many of them are expensive. But I finally got to the page with the ones with IN-STATE TUITION BELOW FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

I from that page, I picked Ohio University, Eastern Campus Most Expensive Colleges & Universities in Ohio by In State Tuition They offer 13 bachelor's degrees. Most of those degrees look pretty useful. No, they won't turn you into an attorney at a top New York firm. And they won't turn you into a surgeon. But they will qualify you to make a good living. https://www.ohio.edu/eastern/academics/degrees.cfm

This is, of course, assuming that your 'soft skills' are reasonably OK. That means:
You are reasonably well-spoken
You are in decent physical shape
You have managed to resist getting fashionable body mutilations
Your hair, at interviews (and on-the-job) is a color which occurs naturally among humans
You can pass a drug test
You don't have a record
You have managed to put together a few good outfits for interviews
Once you get a job, you care about your job (this often leads to better jobs).

Basically, a degree like that, if you can live at home while in school, will cost maybe twenty thou more than sitting at home playing video games for four years.

Plenty of people, by the way, get associate's degrees (or just get certifications) which qualify them to make decent money, then work their way through more advanced degrees.
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Old 11-07-2017, 12:18 AM
 
Location: Greater Houston
4,514 posts, read 8,595,852 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreggT View Post
I'm not sure I understand this statement. I would think if one hates the country they live in, for what ever reason, they should look around, do some research, and head to someplace they feel more comfortable.
Assuming open borders. But most supporters of closed borders are the type who doesn't want to better themselves but to blame somebody else less powerful to pick on. This affects people who want to better themselves but are shut out because of closed border loudmouths.

You might want to study a liberal art to work on your critical thinking skills!
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:26 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,664 posts, read 18,206,684 times
Reputation: 11163
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
A "scam" would be an intentional deception. I don't think most colleges are doing that.
Yes, they are doing that. There are no colleges I know of that post warning signs on their website telling you how little ROI you can expect from some of their so-called degree programs.

They are definitely out to rip you off if you don’t know any better.
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Old 11-07-2017, 05:31 AM
 
2,953 posts, read 1,388,601 times
Reputation: 5292
I worked and graduated with MBA and $18,000 in loans. Thnak God for Pell grants and scholarships.
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Old 11-07-2017, 06:01 AM
 
723 posts, read 494,473 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrueTamilTiger View Post
What makes you think that the consumers (students) aren't informed on the selection that they are making???

Personal experiences and observations over time. The rise of the student loan debt load issue. The rise and prevalence of for-profit colleges. The increase in media and some in educational fields presenting college as the most viable, if not sole, route to obtain well-paying jobs, economic security, and socioeconomic mobility. But this appears to be changing now at some levels, and hopefully for the better.

Did you grow up in the US? If so, which during which time period did you enter and complete your education prior to entering the job market?

I was educated during a time when college was not so heavily presented as the best/sole path towards socioeconomic mobility. But it was assumed by most that it was the default path, because it was a high SES school, with correspondingly large numbers of highly educated parents. However, Shop and Home Ec. classes were also a part of our general curriculum in high school, and for-profit colleges were not as prevalent.

Although college was indeed seen as a pathway towards obtaining a career, and with it, hopefully a well-paying job and socioeconomic mobility for those who seek it, it was not explicitly presented as such. Not so blatantly as today in terms of majors, degrees, employment rates, and salary stats.

Rather, it was more implicit. Many of those I knew viewed college as a journey that would provide the incoming student with further tools by which to enhance their skill sets, and thus make them more marketable for employment once they obtain the specific degree. If seeking it more for direct employment, then one chose a path leading to a professional degree. If not, one chose majors that provided less defined routes to a job/career.

It seems this changed sometime after my period in education, and colleges as well as the media, heavily represented to many students, especially low-income, that going to college - any college- and getting a degree-any degree- would directly lead to XYZ in jobs and money. Very simplistic and vague, without correspondingly presenting all the complex nuances and caveats involved in the college-->degree-->jobs--->socioeconimc mobility scenario.

So for students from backgrounds who had little to no knowledge of these nuances, and received poor guidance counseling, college in their eyes did not deliver on the promises they expected.
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Old 11-07-2017, 07:35 AM
 
723 posts, read 494,473 times
Reputation: 1014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mingna View Post
Personal experiences and observations over time. The rise of the student loan debt load issue. The rise and prevalence of for-profit colleges. The increase in media and some in educational fields presenting college as the most viable, if not sole, route to obtain well-paying jobs, economic security, and socioeconomic mobility. But this appears to be changing now at some levels, and hopefully for the better.

Did you grow up in the US? If so, which during which time period did you enter and complete your education prior to entering the job market?

I was educated during a time when college was not so heavily presented as the best/sole path towards socioeconomic mobility. But it was assumed by most that it was the default path, because it was a high SES school, with correspondingly large numbers of highly educated parents. However, Shop and Home Ec. classes were also a part of our general curriculum in high school, and for-profit colleges were not as prevalent.

Although college was indeed seen as a pathway towards obtaining a career, and with it, hopefully a well-paying job and socioeconomic mobility for those who seek it, it was not explicitly presented as such. Not so blatantly as today in terms of majors, degrees, employment rates, and salary stats.

Rather, it was more implicit. Many of those I knew viewed college as a journey that would provide the incoming student with further tools by which to enhance their skill sets, and thus make them more marketable for employment once they obtain the specific degree. If seeking it more for direct employment, then one chose a path leading to a professional degree. If not, one chose majors that provided less defined routes to a job/career.

It seems this changed sometime after my period in education, and colleges as well as the media, heavily represented to many students, especially low-income, that going to college - any college- and getting a degree-any degree- would directly lead to XYZ in jobs and money. Very simplistic and vague, without correspondingly presenting all the complex nuances and caveats involved in the college-->degree-->jobs--->socioeconimc mobility scenario.

So for students from backgrounds who had little to no knowledge of these nuances, and received poor guidance counseling, college in their eyes did not deliver on the promises they expected.

Re: the bolded, wanted to add that the average students would still need to be highly skilled and competent in whatever qualifications are conferred by obtaining that degree, in order to compete effectively in the job market.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:42 AM
 
698 posts, read 383,032 times
Reputation: 854
The purposes of university are to provide a broad general education with emphasis on a chosen field of study. We have far too many specialists in the economy and not nearly enough generalists who are able to connect the dots between various disciplines. Wise in one field and illiterate in the others does not a successful employee (or citizen) make.
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Old 11-07-2017, 08:58 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 1,590,532 times
Reputation: 12380
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/03/e...bid1=TAFI&_r=0

Probably worth a read.

The upshot? There's really no such thing as a 'worthless degree.' For example, the top quarter of earners who majored in English outearn the bottom quarter of earners who majored in chemical engineering. And even the median earners who majored in English and History actually do pretty well compared to those who majored in Business or a STEM field.

The other thing? The abstract thinking and social skills honed in humanities are coming more in demand, not less.

http://www.nber.org/digest/nov15/w21473.html
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Old 11-07-2017, 09:05 AM
 
3,962 posts, read 1,590,532 times
Reputation: 12380
Oh, here's a pretty cool graph, too.

https://public.tableau.com/profile/d...byMajor/Sheet1
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