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Old 11-28-2017, 06:23 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,640 posts, read 8,764,064 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Percent Off View Post
Specializing is often a big mistake early on. Take your first two years to get the general ed under your belt. Lots of time to narrow in on something as an upper classman.
For certain career paths, like engineering, taking two years to finish gen ed courses means a six-year degree, because the coursework is sequential. You dally at your own risk. Two extra years for my engineering student daughter would add $55k to her total tuition bill.

Last edited by randomparent; 11-28-2017 at 07:30 PM..
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Old 11-28-2017, 08:18 PM
 
5,761 posts, read 3,043,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
For certain career paths, like engineering, taking two years to finish gen ed courses means a six-year degree, because the coursework is sequential. You dally at your own risk. Two extra years for my engineering student daughter would add $55k to her total tuition bill.
Exactly. Many don't realize the sequential nature of many STEM programs. Miss one class in sequence and you might need an extra year to get back on track.
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Old 11-29-2017, 10:53 AM
Status: "delete" (set 23 days ago)
 
3,189 posts, read 1,276,696 times
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Originally Posted by VendorDude View Post
Rise of the machines? Pretty much not a serious notion at this point.
If you think this, you will quickly find that you are out of touch with reality.
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Old 11-30-2017, 06:52 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,940,957 times
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Most educators at the college level don't believe college is for job training. Most corporations require a college degree and in many cases expect new graduates to have related job skills.

See the problem?

And god forbid a student goes and gets related job training outside of the typical college education. Not accredited by some fancy alphabet board? No job for you.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:16 AM
 
5,761 posts, read 3,043,495 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoleFanHSV View Post
Most educators at the college level don't believe college is for job training. Most corporations require a college degree and in many cases expect new graduates to have related job skills.

See the problem?

And god forbid a student goes and gets related job training outside of the typical college education. Not accredited by some fancy alphabet board? No job for you.
Not true. Hiring managers don't expect people to come out of college with job skills. They expect them to come out with the basic knowledge to build job skills on and the willingness and motivation to get going on the job whatever it is. The only "job" skills they are expected to have are show up on time, get along with others, ask questions when they don't know, willingness to learn, and self motivation.

You know. The basic things pretty much any successful graduate needed to get through college. And for the most part these new graduates do well.
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Old 11-30-2017, 07:18 AM
 
Location: My House
33,080 posts, read 26,901,384 times
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If you go to college and choose a degree solely to earn X amount of dollars in Y career, you're missing the point of higher education.

Yes, one wants to leave college and get a job that will support them. However, the point of college is to learn and expand your mind. It's not "when I graduate, I will make X dollars and Y cents per year, so I'm looking at this as my ROI for attending."

For all you know, the career you chose that drove that college decision may become over-saturated with capable people and you may make less than you thought or have to go back to college to re-train for another career. Or, horrors, take a starting position that's not in your field.

If you are flexible and you are a well-rounded individual, you'll do fine. If you're rigid in your learning and thinking processes, it'll be tough for you.

Which is why liberal arts degrees are so great, really.

I know STEM is what everyone says we all need, but when we lose our ability to communicate well because everyone is siloed in their tech field and has no clue how to communicate out the fruits of their labors to their colleagues, you'll wish we'd not discouraged EVERYONE from going into liberal arts. Not everyone is an engineer or has a passion for math. And, that is okay.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:09 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,940,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
Not true. Hiring managers don't expect people to come out of college with job skills. They expect them to come out with the basic knowledge to build job skills on and the willingness and motivation to get going on the job whatever it is. The only "job" skills they are expected to have are show up on time, get along with others, ask questions when they don't know, willingness to learn, and self motivation.

You know. The basic things pretty much any successful graduate needed to get through college. And for the most part these new graduates do well.
I haven't seem that at all here, especially with entry level hardware and software engineering degrees. The expectations are much higher than what students actually have learned or skills used.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:15 AM
 
2,514 posts, read 1,940,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
If you go to college and choose a degree solely to earn X amount of dollars in Y career, you're missing the point of higher education.

Yes, one wants to leave college and get a job that will support them. However, the point of college is to learn and expand your mind. It's not "when I graduate, I will make X dollars and Y cents per year, so I'm looking at this as my ROI for attending."

For all you know, the career you chose that drove that college decision may become over-saturated with capable people and you may make less than you thought or have to go back to college to re-train for another career. Or, horrors, take a starting position that's not in your field.

If you are flexible and you are a well-rounded individual, you'll do fine. If you're rigid in your learning and thinking processes, it'll be tough for you.

Which is why liberal arts degrees are so great, really.

I know STEM is what everyone says we all need, but when we lose our ability to communicate well because everyone is siloed in their tech field and has no clue how to communicate out the fruits of their labors to their colleagues, you'll wish we'd not discouraged EVERYONE from going into liberal arts. Not everyone is an engineer or has a passion for math. And, that is okay.
I believe many stem degrees really should be more like trade schools. And learning to communicate doesn't necessarily require a college education.

I graduated with way more humanities than I needed a would have been much better off with more engineering courses, project courses, and economic courses
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:23 AM
 
Location: East Coast of the United States
15,671 posts, read 18,227,608 times
Reputation: 11177
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
If you go to college and choose a degree solely to earn X amount of dollars in Y career, you're missing the point of higher education.

Yes, one wants to leave college and get a job that will support them. However, the point of college is to learn and expand your mind. It's not "when I graduate, I will make X dollars and Y cents per year, so I'm looking at this as my ROI for attending."
This kind of thinking could be reasonable if college wasn’t so expensive for most people. However, when you have to pay tens of thousands of dollars or more for a college education, then you most certainly have to focus on ROI. That is the bottom line.

Not everyone can afford an expensive hobby like what you’re talking about. Ultimately, it is about the money.
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Old 11-30-2017, 08:30 AM
Status: "delete" (set 23 days ago)
 
3,189 posts, read 1,276,696 times
Reputation: 2351
Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZin View Post
If you go to college and choose a degree solely to earn X amount of dollars in Y career, you're missing the point of higher education.

Yes, one wants to leave college and get a job that will support them. However, the point of college is to learn and expand your mind. It's not "when I graduate, I will make X dollars and Y cents per year, so I'm looking at this as my ROI for attending."

For all you know, the career you chose that drove that college decision may become over-saturated with capable people and you may make less than you thought or have to go back to college to re-train for another career. Or, horrors, take a starting position that's not in your field.

If you are flexible and you are a well-rounded individual, you'll do fine. If you're rigid in your learning and thinking processes, it'll be tough for you.

Which is why liberal arts degrees are so great, really.

I know STEM is what everyone says we all need, but when we lose our ability to communicate well because everyone is siloed in their tech field and has no clue how to communicate out the fruits of their labors to their colleagues, you'll wish we'd not discouraged EVERYONE from going into liberal arts. Not everyone is an engineer or has a passion for math. And, that is okay.
I think this is a bit misguided though. It's like this current generation that purchases McMansions, with the expectation that this type of behavior can continue in the future, despite scarcity and population growth.

Maybe someone could have obtained an English degree in the past and worked their way to the top of an organization, but today there is far too much competition and there are actual skills that are necessary to provide value for increasingly sparse jobs.

People in college today may NEVER be able to pay off their student debt because automation is going to increasingly replace human labor capital until there are literally almost 0 jobs available for humans. It is very important today that students prepare for this and obtain majors in subjects that will help them navigate this reality.
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