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Old 10-23-2017, 02:26 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victimofGM View Post
Actually, college is suppose to be a job training program.
Nah.

Vocational/trade school, sure. Academia is not exclusively job training, although it can certainly be used to build skills useful in many careers.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Middle America
35,817 posts, read 39,334,463 times
Reputation: 48613
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Regarding student debt, here's how I see it.

People have no problem taking out loans to buy cars. And, a car only lasts for a handful of years. Education lasts for a lifetime.
Yep.

The average debt incurred to finance a bachelor's degree is less than the sticker price for a new midsize SUV. Many of the same people who rant about the scourge of student loan debt have no problem justifying this type of auto purchase.
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Old 10-23-2017, 02:59 PM
 
20,203 posts, read 28,238,032 times
Reputation: 18001
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
In 10-20 years, America and Americans will be one of the most uneducated country and citizenry on the planet. No degree is worthless. College is not a job training program. It never was.
I agree, especially with the trend toward highly specialized (and arguably over-saturated) tech occupations and more/less abandonment of teaching and research among the liberal arts majors.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:00 PM
 
20,203 posts, read 28,238,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Yep.

The average debt incurred to finance a bachelor's degree is less than the sticker price for a new midsize SUV. Many of the same people who rant about the scourge of student loan debt have no problem justifying this type of auto purchase.
Nor the upgrade to the newest/latest tech gadgets or cell phones every couple of years.
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Old 10-23-2017, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,448 posts, read 10,126,539 times
Reputation: 28069
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
Six- figure debt after earning an undergraduate degree is uncommon, even among private school attendees.
$49,000 (out-of-state tuition, room and board, books, fees) per year for four years at a top-tier public university adds up, even with scholarships.
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Old 10-23-2017, 04:06 PM
 
5,751 posts, read 3,035,945 times
Reputation: 15087
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Regarding student debt, here's how I see it.

People have no problem taking out loans to buy cars. And, a car only lasts for a handful of years. Education lasts for a lifetime.

I do agree with you though that there is a certain percentage of students and parents who don't make the smartest decisions about how much to borrow for college. I'm a retired school counselor, and saw families do this all the time. They wanted expensive College XYZ even though less expensive College ABC was just as good, and in order to get College XYZ they racked up PRIVATE student loans to get it.

But that isn't the fault of colleges. That's the fault of students (and parents) making dumb decisions.

It's just like the decisions people make when buying a car. Some people want the shiny new BMW even if they have to take out $40,000 in loans to get it. Other people say, "that little used Honda will get me where I want to go and I only need to borrow $5,000 to get it."

But, blaming the auto manufacturer for that choice after you make it is ludicrous.

By the way, above I emphasized the word PRIVATE student loans for a reason. Federal student loans -- especially the subsidized ones -- are lower cost and it's almost impossible for an undergrad to rack up "six figures" in debt for undergraduate school with them because Federal student loans have CAPS on the amount you can borrow. But, again, families make the decision to opt for a more expensive school that they can't afford and the only way to do that is to tack on PRIVATE loans.

But, again, buyers always have choices. No one is forced to take out six figures of debt for college (or graduate school). The trouble comes when you opt for the new BMW instead of the used Honda.
The real problem is they don't know they are making dumb decisions. Most of them are really trying to make a smart decision based on the best information they have available at the time. School counselors are really of no help since most don't know anything about college outside the local few. Nor is there good information on the trade off between local CC vs State U vs Out of State U vs small LAC vs big LAC. The know Ivy League = good and Not Ivy League = bad. They don't know Ivy is a sports conference, but believe it's a ranking of quality. Then talk about public Ivies.


Then try to evaluate programs. Which degree program is best? Which will lead to a job five or six years from now? How does that change if they go to an R1 out of state vs R3 instate vs LAC? How does choice of college impact quality of degree program?


There are simply so many choices and no solid answers. Sure, everyone has "the" answer, but so does the next guy with a different one. If the parents themselves are not college graduates, then all these problems are magnified even further.
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Old 10-23-2017, 04:13 PM
 
4,128 posts, read 2,710,180 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
$49,000 (out-of-state tuition, room and board, books, fees) per year for four years at a top-tier public university adds up, even with scholarships.
But nobody is holding a gun to the student's head making them go to an out of state top-tier public university.

If they are smart/gifted enough to get into a top-tier public university as an "out of stater", they surely can qualify to get into the best public college/university in their home state, which would undoubted save them a ton of money!
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Old 10-23-2017, 04:15 PM
 
6,762 posts, read 9,742,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
$49,000 (out-of-state tuition, room and board, books, fees) per year for four years at a top-tier public university adds up, even with scholarships.
As I have already proven with reliable sources, 6-figure debt is rare after completing a bachelor's degree. Most people do not attend extremely expensive schools. Even when they do attend extremely expensive schools, they often do not pay sticker price due to scholarships, grants, work study, etc. Then, you have the wealthy families that don't have to go into debt to cover tuition.

Not one person on the other side of this debate has linked to any statistics to support his or her argument. There seems to be a lack of understanding on the other side that listed tuition cost is not the same as debt. You can't determine how much debt people have by looking at tuition.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,278 posts, read 1,033,859 times
Reputation: 7538
First,
where is everyone getting these statistic about kids party dusk to dawn at college?? I went to college and here's a new flash. Yes, I managed to go to occasional parties and get my degree. Just like in real life I manage to go out to clubs and bars and make it in to work.

Now I do have a stem education (advance degree in Chemistry), I did not pick the field because of money, I picked the field because I liked science but there is no denying that I have a great salary due to my degree

0% of my education was wasted. as others have said, even my classes not pertaining to my degree where worth something.

I have 2 sons, one graduated already, one is a senior both will NOT HAVE anywhere near 100K in debt. my youngest has two student loans for a total of about 10K. He goes to Temple University, not Ivy league but it's a good school.

I also am amazed how people will complain about college tuition yet drop 600 bucks every time Apple comes out with a new iphone.
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Old 10-23-2017, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,278 posts, read 1,033,859 times
Reputation: 7538
Quote:
Originally Posted by JTE1969 View Post
Uh... Life skills -- sometimes you do not need to go to college for that... Nobody taught me how to fix the flat tires you get while driving on the road... Can you figure out how to know this "LIFE SKILL?"
and no one is going to pay you 85,000 bucks for fixing flats. I work for a major chemical company in Delaware, we recruit every spring on nearby universities and colleges. college grads starting in entry level technician jobs start at 66,000 bucks a year, with great health insurance, dollar for dollar match up to 6% on their 401K, a yearly bonus of anywhere between 2-6% of their salary any time the company ends the year with a profit (last 4 years I've gotten a bonus)

I hope my kid aspire a little higher than the "life skills" nonsense.
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