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Old 10-23-2017, 10:50 PM
 
11,902 posts, read 9,637,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TabulaRasa View Post
Not necessarily the case.

I ended up at an out-of-state private college 500 miles from home in large part because in addition to being the most attractive option academically, it was the best financial aid package I got, and that includes what was offered by my local public universities. I could not have gone to either of the state schools near-ish my home (and still 1-2 hours away) for what it cost to attend my alma mater.
Yes, it's obviously not always the case. I also was able to choose my school because I got a nice scholarship. One of my college friends chose our school solely because of her music scholarship. But some schools have stipulations for keeping those scholarships, which is something to look out for. You may have to maintain a certain GPA or other requirements to keep the money, which is something people may not realize or realize the significance of when choosing schools.

I just think that there's immense pressure on kids to go away to school. At least this was my experience in my upper middle class town I grew up in. It was always parents asking other parents, "where's your kid going?? What's she want to major in?? Which schools has she looked at yet?" There's just a lot of pressure on these 17 and 18 year olds, and I think it's unfair. Pressure to not only pick a school, but also to think you know what you want to do with your life (which realistically, most don't and many change their majors multiple times). They should make whatever decision is right for them, for whatever reasons, of course, but I like to point out to kids in that position now not to get caught up in that mentality people tend to have where it matters where you're looking, where you're going, whether it's community college or a university 3 states away. It's easy when you're in that position and at that age to let others influence you, and make you feel anxious and second guess your own decisions, but as someone who's been through it and is in law school, I always tell people to do their own thing, don't worry about others, and do what's best for them.

I have a younger sibling whose friends have younger siblings still in high school, and of the few college freshmen I currently know, one has already come home and the other is seriously unhappy at his school. Both went away to school. The one who came home is already applying to transfer to a local school. Going away is truly not for everyone, and it's the type of thing many don't realize until they're there. I just feel bad for kids who see so much pressure from their friends and their friends' parents, I really think society in general, to go away to school when there is absolutely nothing wrong with staying local and going to a state school. In the end, it may be the smarter decision depending on things like scholarship offers and stuff like that.
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Old 10-24-2017, 05:30 AM
 
3,052 posts, read 1,218,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I don't think that college is a scam. I think the idea we force onto kids of going away to school and having the "college experience" is more of a scam because going away, especially to a private university, means you spend more money than you would have had you stayed at home and attended a county or community college before transferring to a state school, or going to a local state university for 4 years and commuting (or getting cheaper in-state tuition and living there).

A lot of kids who go away wind up coming home within a year and transferring to a local school. They either didn't like their school or they weren't ready to be on their own. I think it's smarter to push the eduction aspect, the deciding what you want to do with your life and getting work/internship experience aspect, than the "yay going away and partying and having a college experience!" aspect.

I commuted to a private school in another state after living there for one year (school is in NYC, I'm from NJ, not a bad commute at all) but I'm now a big supporter of going to state schools or local schools and commuting if possible. This is the advice I give to most people getting ready for college now, to most seniors I know. I don't regret my experience, and I have no debt, but I think for most people, spending a ton of money going away, especially to a private school, doesn't realistically make financial sense. Especially now with so many people going onto grad school, I suggest they save that extra money they would have spent going away to college for grad school, which ultimately is more important anyway if one decides to go. I'd rather "splurge" on a good grad school out of state that's more expensive than an undergrad institution if I'm just going to go to grad school at the end.

I went to Italy when I was 18 with a tour group. I remember our tour guide telling us that it's customary, at least in the area we were in, for college students to live at home and go to local universities and that the American idea of "going away to school" was foreign to that area. I remember thinking how smart that was. People lived at home as long a possible, and commuted to school, to save money and tended to move out when they got a job or got married or something, after college.
The issue is that most American states are the same size as European countries and not as densely populated. Our university systems arenít even set up the same way as their systems are. Itís not possible for everyone to go to a local university to get the coursework they need to graduate with a major of interest. For many people, the only option may be to go away to school because there are no universities in the area at all, or the only universities donít offer the courses that they need. Even in states like Texas and California, there are rural areas that are fairly remote from big cities.

For those people, going to the state school is not necessarily going to be cheaper. A lot of private schools have large endowments and can afford scholarships. They also have a better network for students who have to stay over breaks because itís hard for them to get home. That may very well be the case for many students who are from rural/remote areas. For example, the public university in the UP of Michigan is ridiculously expensive. That is a remote area and while itís available, there are likely less expensive options that might be private schools that can offer scholarships. It is just a mistake to assume that because something is a state school, it is the less expensive option.
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dirt Grinder View Post
$49,000 (out-of-state tuition, room and board, books, fees) per year for four years at a top-tier public university adds up, even with scholarships.
Why do people need to go to school out of state? There is nothing wrong with the SAME DEGREES that are offered in your home state.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
1. You are spot on about "how much people borrow"
2. Federal student loans are still expensive
3. The education lasts a lifetime but so does a 30 yr student loan at 7%!
4. College is a business, the school doesn't care if you graduate or if you work in the field but rather that you paid for your classes.
Just a small correction on your number 3, so that people have the right data point: the standard repayment rate on FEDERAL undergraduate student loans is 10 years, not 30.

The current interest rate on FEDERAL undergraduate loans is 4.45% (fixed rate).

Private student loans can cost much more, of course, and students also can choose a different repayment schedule with Federal loans. But if they stick with the standard FEDERAL payment plan for undergrads, students taking out Federal loans today will not be paying off federal loans 30 years from now.

Again, it comes down to choices.

I do agree with you that the four year graduation rates at some colleges and universities is pretty dismal.

But, no college can force a student to have the motivation to succeed, both during and after college.

Motivation comes from the individual.

That's why I also agree that some kids would be better served going into the military, apprenticing in a trade, or getting a job after college.

Of course, being successful in any those alternatives also requires a level of self-motivation.

Perhaps that is really what we need to be talking about: why some people are more internally motivated t than others. That's true for both those who choose to go to college and those who choose an alternate path.

It's not the path you choose that matters; it's what you're motivated to do after you step onto the path.
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Old 10-24-2017, 11:16 AM
 
7,031 posts, read 3,760,683 times
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Also, I do want to add that I think a lot (not all) of the for profit "trade" schools are scams, and not worth borrowing money for. They lure people in with the promise of "guaranteed jobs" but don't deliver anything close to a quality education. They prey on those who think there is an "easy" route to a job AND they often push private loans.

But, the for profit colleges that fall into this category are a subset of the universe of higher education. It's hyperbole to say that ALL colleges and universities are scams because of a few bad apples.

Again, it comes down to two things: self-motivation and choices.

If college is the path you choose, there are plenty of good, reliable resources available to help students and parents make informed decisions. (See, for example, the new U.S. Dept of Education College Scorecards: https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/). If you're self-motivated, you'll find and use that information wisely and make a good choice for yourself.

If college is not for you, there is also plenty of information available to help students and parents make informed decisions about jobs that don't require college. See for example, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics occupational handbook: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/ If you're self-motivated you'll find and use that information wisely and make a good choice for yourself.

Finally, just because someone makes a choice that is different than yours, it does NOT mean that they are better or less than you are. They've just chosen a different path, and we should all be able to do that without having people tell us what we're doing is a waste.

In the end, the decision is yours to make. Good luck with whatever path you choose.
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Old 10-24-2017, 11:25 AM
 
7,031 posts, read 3,760,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415 View Post
I don't think that college is a scam. I think the idea we force onto kids of going away to school and having the "college experience" is more of a scam because going away, especially to a private university, means you spend more money than you would have had you stayed at home and attended a county or community college before transferring to a state school, or going to a local state university for 4 years and commuting (or getting cheaper in-state tuition and living there).
Not all the time. My daughter's college education actually ended up costing less than attending our instate university would have cost us, thanks to generous grants and scholarships she received from the excellent college she attended in another state.

Again, parents and students need to use the Net Price Calculators to get an estimate of their expected out of pocket costs at various schools. That's the only way to get a sense of which schools might be least expensive for YOUR family.

Also, while I agree living at home is going to be cheaper than living in a dorm or in an apartment, if you're living at home, you still are costing your family money. Unless you sleep out in the backyard in a tent, never shower or do laundry, and never eat.
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Old 10-24-2017, 11:45 AM
 
11,902 posts, read 9,637,243 times
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I know that it isn’t ALWAYS cheaper to go to a state school. I was generalizing. My larger point is that I think there is a ton of pressure on kids to go away to school when it’s not for everyone, and I think it’s important for them to know that that’s okay.

Not everyone gets a scholarship or financial aid. Not everyone can maintain a scholarship. Not everyone is happy far from home and not everyone knows what they want to do and can’t justify spending more money at any university than they could at a community college for 2 years while they try to figure it out before transferring. I just like to point out that staying home, going to county or community college first for 2 years, or going to a state school is a great option and should be touted as often as the idea of “going away” imo and in my experience is.

My cousin is too rich for financial aid but too poor to go wherever she wants without worrying about having too much in loans. She chose a local 2 year college and is currently looking into universities to transfer into. Her grades in high school were okay but she’s done well in college and can probably get a scholarship to wherever she transfers. I think something like this is often a great option for people, for many reasons. There is a general common (and not wrong) complaint that college is very expensive today. A solution like this could ease that burden but I feel there’s pressure on kids to go away to school, from basically everyone around them. At least, I see it in my area.

So I don’t think that college is a scam but I think how we tend to sell it to impressionable teens who really have no idea what they’re doing is.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:31 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,448 posts, read 10,152,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cjseliga View Post
But nobody is holding a gun to the student's head making them go to an out of state top-tier public university.

If they are smart/gifted enough to get into a top-tier public university as an "out of stater", they surely can qualify to get into the best public college/university in their home state, which would undoubted save them a ton of money!
In-state universities don't always have the desired degree program.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,448 posts, read 10,152,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
As I have already proven with reliable sources, 6-figure debt is rare after completing a bachelor's degree...
You haven't "proven" a thing. You have no idea how many students have six-figure debt.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:35 PM
 
Location: Heart of Dixie
12,448 posts, read 10,152,693 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Again, you have the choice between going to your instate public university and saving a bundle, or opting to pay more as a non-resident at another state's public university or or a private college.

The choice is yours to make, but don't grumble about the cost or the student loans needed to pay for your choice after you make it.
Again, in-state universities don't always have the desired degree program.
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