With student debt piling up and worthless degrees, college seems like the biggest scam for most people. (GRE, literacy)
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You haven't "proven" a thing. You have no idea how many students have six-figure debt.
You obviously didn't bother to read the articles I linked to on the first page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe
I love all of the talk about scholarships. Those are reserved for EXCEPTIONAL students. My problem with college is the brainwashing students get in high school, causing AVERAGE students to sacrifice their financial security to go to college, with little reward. I will use my wife, and her sister as examples. My wife wasn't a very good student in high school, she had a C average. Because all she heard in high school was "you have to go to college to make something out of yourself", she applied everywhere. She didn't get a single scholarship, she got $300.00 in grants. She wound up with $20,000.00 in student loans to cover her first year of school, at the closest university to where she grew up. She took a remedial math and English to get in, got another C average, and mid way through her second semester she was failing math. She retook the math class, failed again, and was kicked out of her degree program. We are finally paying off the remainder of her loans, 13 years later, so that she can go to technical school for an LPN program. She never belonged in college to begin with, but was pressured to do so.
Her sister also was a C student in high school. She also didn't get a scholarship, and went to the same local university. She got her bachelors degree is Psychology, but because of a C average in college, she has tried for years to get into a Masters program, and has gotten denied. She racked up $60,000 in debt. She pays $385.00 a month on an income based repayment program. It is going to take over 20 years to repay her loans. She currently works at a cell phone store as an assistant manager, earning $32,000.00 a year. College is nothing more than an anchor on her neck. The store manager in her store never went to college.
I went to technical school, for free, through a program for low income students in high school. I've made it to lower level management without having to go to college. I'm at the point where to advance, I have to have a piece of paper saying that I have a degree in something. My local Community College will cost me about $20,000.00 for the first two years, including books, and fees. It will cost about $30,000.00 for the final two years at the closest state university, again including books and fees. There isn't anything that college can teach me that 20 years of work experience hasn't taught me already. This is the reason that many, me included, feel that college is just a scam. Unfortunately for me, and others in my position, I can't get into mid-level management without it.
College courses in statistics and research methods would teach you about the worthlessness of anecdotal evidence. I could easily counter your anecdotal stories with my own.
$20,000 for two years at a community college is actually way out of the norm. The average tuition for a community college is under $4,000 per year. Also, students who attend community colleges have higher student loan default rates, on average, than those who go to a 4-year college even though community colleges are cheaper. As a matter of fact, those with less than $16,000 in debt are more likely to default than those with more than $30,000 in debt. How is this so? It's because those with less debt are often those who didn't finish school; therefore, they have more difficulty landing a job that pays well enough to cover student loan payments.
Should we allow students to write off college debt? I would say no, but I would also say we shouldn't allow people to create LLC after LLC when they run one into the ground, write off the debt, and start another. Why should big corporations be able to write off debt and go bankrupt when they run a company into the ground and the CEO walks away with millions of dollars when a college student can't file bankruptcy on their debt?
Don't get me wrong, I don't think either of these individuals should be able to walk away from their debt, especially when they run a corporation or LLC under and walk away with cash.. they should have to give their "income" from running the LLC or corporation back to pay off the debt. Alas the system is designed to allow scammers to get rich if they do it right.
Schools do a student a disservice by encouraging these worthless degrees and discouraging trades. Parents should be actively researching in demand fields and recommending career options to their children to counter the useless advice schools often give about what fields to enter. What jobs are in most demand, and which ones pay the most, should be what a person goes into. Like it or not, doing what you "love" might not pay the bills long term.
Debt written off for an LLC is the bank's money. Debt written off for a student loan is the taxpayer's money. Student loans are guaranteed by the government.
...$20,000 for two years at a community college is actually way out of the norm. The average tuition for a community college is under $4,000 per year...
Apples and oranges. Who the heck said anything about community college??? I'm talking about a top-tier university with a high-demand degree program.
There's a big difference between student debt from run-of-the-mill community colleges and debt from in-demand degree programs from reputable universities.
I love all of the talk about scholarships. Those are reserved for EXCEPTIONAL students. My problem with college is the brainwashing students get in high school, causing AVERAGE students to sacrifice their financial security to go to college, with little reward. I will use my wife, and her sister as examples. My wife wasn't a very good student in high school, she had a C average. Because all she heard in high school was "you have to go to college to make something out of yourself", she applied everywhere. She didn't get a single scholarship, she got $300.00 in grants. She wound up with $20,000.00 in student loans to cover her first year of school, at the closest university to where she grew up. She took a remedial math and English to get in, got another C average, and mid way through her second semester she was failing math. She retook the math class, failed again, and was kicked out of her degree program. We are finally paying off the remainder of her loans, 13 years later, so that she can go to technical school for an LPN program. She never belonged in college to begin with, but was pressured to do so.
Her sister also was a C student in high school. She also didn't get a scholarship, and went to the same local university. She got her bachelors degree is Psychology, but because of a C average in college, she has tried for years to get into a Masters program, and has gotten denied. She racked up $60,000 in debt. She pays $385.00 a month on an income based repayment program. It is going to take over 20 years to repay her loans. She currently works at a cell phone store as an assistant manager, earning $32,000.00 a year. College is nothing more than an anchor on her neck. The store manager in her store never went to college.
I went to technical school, for free, through a program for low income students in high school. I've made it to lower level management without having to go to college. I'm at the point where to advance, I have to have a piece of paper saying that I have a degree in something. My local Community College will cost me about $20,000.00 for the first two years, including books, and fees. It will cost about $30,000.00 for the final two years at the closest state university, again including books and fees. There isn't anything that college can teach me that 20 years of work experience hasn't taught me already. This is the reason that many, me included, feel that college is just a scam. Unfortunately for me, and others in my position, I can't get into mid-level management without it.
Not all scholarships are reserved for exceptional students. There are some states that have fairly good state-funded scholarship programs that give some scholarship money to most people who are able to get into college and stay in state. Florida’s program is a good example, although it is less generous than it used to be. Money can be used for either private or public universities as well as 2-year institutions. I think TN offers free community college and NY now offers free 4-year college for people under a certain income level that is actually quite generous. There are also many private schools that offer only need-based aid or primarily need-based aid.
You act as if loan data isn't easily accessible and a matter of public record....
"The percentage of borrowers who take out more than $100,000 in student loans: 3%"
YOU may have no idea how many students have six figure debt.....the rest of us do know....
I'll tell you what I'm talking about. Those numbers don't identify what percentage dropped-out, what percentage went to run-of-the-mill community colleges, what percentage obtained mediocre, dead-end degrees, what percentage obtained degrees in high-demand fields, etc.
Looking back on your college education, what percentage of it was a huge waste?
Most of it.
Very little of what I learned is relevant to my job, and if I learned it a long time ago and seldom use it on the job, I have to look it up again and relearn how to do it. Which makes that stuff marginally useful I suppose.
But the stuff like Linear Algebra, Organic Chemistry, and Dynamics were totally useless. I can't even tell you how many hours I spent learning that stuff and ... all gone. And for the people saying going through stuff like that makes you smarter or more well rounded, it really doesn't. It's just a total waste of a lot of effort and brainpower really.
OTOH, if I had spent all those hours doing sight reading, or ear training, or learning to do salsa dancing or something like that, then my life would be enhanced.
Do you have facts to back up your statement that "a lot" of kids enter the real world with a 6-figure debt?
What percentage are we talking about who graduate from 4-year schools with $100,000 or more in debt?
Please cite a source and provide a link to the data.
Not to nitpick but I read an article from a few years back where it was upwards of 1.1 million Americans.
Here in Canada, I have just under 20K in student loans. I quit my job a few months back and I'm still not that concerned with how long it will be to pay it off (won't be beyond this decade even with a minimum wage job) given how low the compounding interest rate is.
I'm also going back to school next September to be a teacher.
Hell, if Barack and Michelle can only afford to pay off their student loans well into their 40s and after starting a family- why can't I????
I'll tell you what I'm talking about. Those numbers don't identify what percentage dropped-out, what percentage went to run-of-the-mill community colleges, what percentage obtained mediocre, dead-end degrees, what percentage obtained degrees in high-demand fields, etc.
What does ANY of that dissembling have to do with THIS statement you made...
You haven't "proven" a thing. You have no idea how many students have six-figure debt.
Clearly the DATA does PROVE how many students have six figure debt and it ISN'T MANY, the data was on the amount of BORROWERS with 6 figure debt NOT the number of GRADUATES so yes it includes dropouts, it included for profit and not for profit schools etc....
Apples and oranges. Who the heck said anything about community college??? I'm talking about a top-tier university with a high-demand degree program.
There's a big difference between student debt from run-of-the-mill community colleges and debt from in-demand degree programs from reputable universities.
Did you even bother to read the post I quoted? Do you bother to read anything? You didn't see that big, blue box above my statements about community colleges? You've never heard of multi-quoting?
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You have no idea how many students have six-figure debt.
