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$49,000 (out-of-state tuition, room and board, books, fees) per year for four years at a top-tier public university adds up, even with scholarships.
Again, you have the choice between going to your instate public university and saving a bundle, or opting to pay more as a non-resident at another state's public university or or a private college.
The choice is yours to make, but don't grumble about the cost or the student loans needed to pay for your choice after you make it.
and no one is going to pay you 85,000 bucks for fixing flats. I work for a major chemical company in Delaware, we recruit every spring on nearby universities and colleges. college grads starting in entry level technician jobs start at 66,000 bucks a year, with great health insurance, dollar for dollar match up to 6% on their 401K, a yearly bonus of anywhere between 2-6% of their salary any time the company ends the year with a profit (last 4 years I've gotten a bonus)
I hope my kid aspire a little higher than the "life skills" nonsense.
Sadly too many students have little to no life skills. These are skills they should have learned from their parents before graduating high school. By then they should be able to do their own laundry, basic cooking, Balance abank account, basic home and auto maintenance. They should also know the basics of civics such as the three branches of government and the powers and responsibilities of each. Too many students in college can’t even answer those basic civics questions.
I disagree, 100k+ is not uncommon for out of state tuition especially. For some jobs like STEMS, a degree is a MUST. For 80% of jobs requiring a bachelors, the degree is not even needed. It's just a way to slim down job applicants since there are sometimes thousands of people applying for the same jobs. Yes 75% of college majors are worthless. We are now seeing worthless masters degrees too. Ex Masters in early childhood education, the starting salary is on average is 45k.
you contradict yourself. First you say that a college degree is not really needed to perform many jobs out there, it is just an arbitrary way to thin out applicants (true), then you say that many college degrees are worthless even though it does not really matter what degree you have, "worthless" or not, if you do not need it to perform a job. The problem lies with a) labor surplus b) our corporate lord and masters are getting mad looking at all that labor surplus and then they impose layer upon layer of capricious requirements on the peons. The above madness (and it is madness and waste on the colossal scale) cannot be resolved by everybody acquiring "useful" degrees because corporate drones will immediately impose extra requirements on the peons with "useful" degrees to further discriminate applicants and automate hiring. So there always will be shades of "useful", it is golden trough for circular logic and guided self-blame - two American staples. So the threads like this will never die until we try to please invisible masters to secure a meal.
Actually, college is suppose to be a job training program. Once you have your degree and career then you can take up those worthless courses if you desire. Won’t improve your chances for promotion, but you’ll feel better at having learned to hate USA, hate the military, and blame the white man for all the problems.
What???
Where does it say that college was a job training program? Who told you that? No paperwork I ever signed for college ever promised me a job. The deal was the college provided the classes and I paid for them. That's it. No other promises were made.
I work with a ton of people making six figures who have degrees in history, sociology, etc. It's not about the type of degree. Success is about the drive, motivation, and determination of the individual. Stop blaming a piece of paper for your life failures.
People have no problem taking out loans to buy cars. And, a car only lasts for a handful of years. Education lasts for a lifetime.
I do agree with you though that there is a certain percentage of students and parents who don't make the smartest decisions about how much to borrow for college. I'm a retired school counselor, and saw families do this all the time. They wanted expensive College XYZ even though less expensive College ABC was just as good, and in order to get College XYZ they racked up PRIVATE student loans to get it.
But that isn't the fault of colleges. That's the fault of students (and parents) making dumb decisions.
It's just like the decisions people make when buying a car. Some people want the shiny new BMW even if they have to take out $40,000 in loans to get it. Other people say, "that little used Honda will get me where I want to go and I only need to borrow $5,000 to get it."
But, blaming the auto manufacturer for that choice after you make it is ludicrous.
By the way, above I emphasized the word PRIVATE student loans for a reason. Federal student loans -- especially the subsidized ones -- are lower cost and it's almost impossible for an undergrad to rack up "six figures" in debt for undergraduate school with them because Federal student loans have CAPS on the amount you can borrow. But, again, families make the decision to opt for a more expensive school that they can't afford and the only way to do that is to tack on PRIVATE loans.
But, again, buyers always have choices. No one is forced to take out six figures of debt for college (or graduate school). The trouble comes when you opt for the new BMW instead of the used Honda.
1. You are spot on about "how much people borrow"
2. Federal student loans are still expensive
3. The education lasts a lifetime but so does a 30 yr student loan at 7%!
4. College is a business, the school doesn't care if you graduate or if you work in the field but rather that you paid for your classes.
I had an employee making over 40K working for me and attending school part time. He was a fair student (C avg, graduated with a 2.7 GPA). He was attempting to borrow about 20K for his senior year so he could quit working and have an awesome senior year, luckily his credit was poor and no one would give him the loan. He borrowed 8K instead and continued working.
In total he borrowed 20K over 4 years (despite the tuition being discounted 75%). Payback is $138 a month for 30 years! He borrowed 20 but is paying back 49,600+. He swore he would make extra payments (in the first 3 years of the payback he has not paid any extra). He is still making the same money, doing the same job as before he graduated. College is not helping him at all!
Success is about the drive, motivation, and determination of the individual. Stop blaming a piece of paper for your life failures.
Don't forget to throw in luck there as well. Some of the most successful and wealthiest people, be it Musk, Gates (college dropout), Bezos, Buffet, Branson (high school dropout), Jobs (I know he's dead and a college dropout), Zuckerberg (college dropout) all admit that luck did play a part, even if it was small in where they got in life. Maybe they are being gracious or just lying to make everyone else feel better on whether or not luck played a part in their success.
The idea of a worthless is degree is repugnant. You can use any degree to become an accountant or a financial planner. The government says you must have a bachelors degree in anything to become one of those things. All you have to do after you get the bachelors degree is take some test to get the government certification. The degree is a stepping stone into a government regulated job market.
I don't think that college is a scam. I think the idea we force onto kids of going away to school and having the "college experience" is more of a scam because going away, especially to a private university, means you spend more money than you would have had you stayed at home and attended a county or community college before transferring to a state school, or going to a local state university for 4 years and commuting (or getting cheaper in-state tuition and living there).
A lot of kids who go away wind up coming home within a year and transferring to a local school. They either didn't like their school or they weren't ready to be on their own. I think it's smarter to push the eduction aspect, the deciding what you want to do with your life and getting work/internship experience aspect, than the "yay going away and partying and having a college experience!" aspect.
I commuted to a private school in another state after living there for one year (school is in NYC, I'm from NJ, not a bad commute at all) but I'm now a big supporter of going to state schools or local schools and commuting if possible. This is the advice I give to most people getting ready for college now, to most seniors I know. I don't regret my experience, and I have no debt, but I think for most people, spending a ton of money going away, especially to a private school, doesn't realistically make financial sense. Especially now with so many people going onto grad school, I suggest they save that extra money they would have spent going away to college for grad school, which ultimately is more important anyway if one decides to go. I'd rather "splurge" on a good grad school out of state that's more expensive than an undergrad institution if I'm just going to go to grad school at the end.
I went to Italy when I was 18 with a tour group. I remember our tour guide telling us that it's customary, at least in the area we were in, for college students to live at home and go to local universities and that the American idea of "going away to school" was foreign to that area. I remember thinking how smart that was. People lived at home as long a possible, and commuted to school, to save money and tended to move out when they got a job or got married or something, after college.
I don't think that college is a scam. I think the idea we force onto kids of going away to school and having the "college experience" is more of a scam because going away, especially to a private university, means you spend more money than you would have had you stayed at home and attended a county or community college before transferring to a state school, or going to a local state university for 4 years and commuting (or getting cheaper in-state tuition and living there).
Not necessarily the case.
I ended up at an out-of-state private college 500 miles from home in large part because in addition to being the most attractive option academically, it was the best financial aid package I got, and that includes what was offered by my local public universities. I could not have gone to either of the state schools near-ish my home (and still 1-2 hours away) for what it cost to attend my alma mater.
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