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Old 11-14-2017, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2335

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Quote:
Originally Posted by VendorDude View Post
They don't have to. Unlike you and a handful of others like you, they already know the score.

Negative views of Hillsdale far outnumber positive views, just as they do for other reactionary, extremist sorts of institutions.
Ok, I still haven't seen you provide any evidence that a significant number of employers have a negative view of Hillsdale or that a significant number of Hillsdale grads can't find a good job. It is pretty difficult to believe that 400 Hillsdale grads a year couldn't find a job at any employer across the large fruited plain.

All I'm seeing is a liberal who doesn't like conservatives beating up on a conservative college.

I wouldn't be that surprised if around half of the Hillsdale grads got jobs at conservative / libertarian think tanks like Heritage and Cato in DC and elsewhere. There are probably not many other colleges that are as positive about free market Austrian economic theory as Hillsdale.

 
Old 11-14-2017, 11:49 AM
 
Location: East Helena, MT
765 posts, read 481,251 times
Reputation: 2003
This thread is so funny, I love watching a democrat and a republican rip each other over ideology.


I actually know someone who graduated from Hillsdale. I never realized that it was such a major issue. There are literally hundreds of small colleges out there. Many are religious. I think that many are missing the point that the OP's son wants to go to a LOCAL school.


The person that I know is a CPA, and works in a large firm here in Montana. Here is his pro's.


1. He loved the small class sizes, and the fact that he had access to his professors.


2. He loved the small campus size, and that he could walk everywhere.


3. He loved the other students, they were on the "nerdy" side, like him. He was awkward, and shy, and he felt that he fit right in.


4. He absolutely hates sports, and didn't want to go to a college where he would be expected to be all "rah rah" about the college sports teams.


5. He loved the focus on U.S. history and the constitution, and loved attending the speeches by the guest speakers they invited.


The only thing that he didn't like, was the tuition. After Hillsdale, he did attend a big state school, to get a masters degree. He told me that he would have never graduated if he attended there from the beginning. There was simply too many distractions. He said he didn't have any interactions with the music department, apart from listening to them on many occasions when they performed on campus.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,243 posts, read 3,404,534 times
Reputation: 8787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
Thank you, that is an interesting way of looking at things.

The apples to Pizza comparison is exactly why these are the two choices. Almost all other universities/colleges are the same approach as Michigan. Michigan is the best of them. Thus if you want to remain local and you get into to Michigan that is where you go if you want the typical University education. (His sister was accepted to U-M Ann Arbor but she applied late and had already started at U-M Dearborn where she ultimately decided to remain despite the reputation difference - at Dearborn she was working 1 on 1 with professors on research projects almost right away - that does not much happen in Ann Arbor. So it is not always better for all people, but it certainly carries the better reputation))

Hillsdale is something altogether different. It does not compete with Michigan because it is something different altogether. (Comparing apples to Pizza). That is why it is still in Consideration against Michigan.

It exhibited some very positive traits for him. The size, the extremely active campus, very motivated, friendly confident and outgoing students, They acted like they wanted him personally, opposed to Michigan's attitude of you can come here if you are very lucky.
My experience is that many private colleges recruit this way, especially small ones. I expressed interest in a couple small private colleges and they had a very hands on approach. It was very effective customer service, especially from my parents perspective. Consider than when you have a small campus community, literally a +/- difference of 20-40 incoming freshmen can make or break the college.

I also experienced a similar attitude as you did with U-M when I visited University of Texas. The Big-Name State flagship schools are going to be like that and have some snottiness associated with it.

Quote:
On the other hand there are concerns. Does it lack connections and alumni network (or is it more connected and stronger alumni network). It is too conservative/religious? He told me he saw several students wearing a Hajab and his tour guide wore a Yamake, so it does not appear to be totally uncomfortable for anyone who does not fit a certain evangelical Christian mold. Is it too conservative? He is christian and has a light conservative outlook on some issues, but he gets really annoyed when anything is presented without an open mind and fair consideration to all sides. The liberal bent at U-M will definitely annoy him but not to the point where he would not attend, besides nearly all public universities are that way. Is the conservative slant so extreme at Hillsdale it would be annoying or even intolerable?

The reputation is also of concern. It is extremely selective. (3.81 GPA and 1400 Sat average). However it is not clear that translates into a great reputation and ready entry into grade school or jobs.
I really don't know. Hillsdale has cache with the conservative community to be sure.

I looked at their faculty for the department that I would know the most about (history). Most of them were experts in the history of Christianity or some aspect of European philosophy which is what I would expect. Many of them got their start at Christian colleges, at least one of them Hillsdale itself. In academia we call this "inbreeding." It's not necessarily bad... they have oriented their department around certain themes and focus on them. Something that jumped out to me is that their history department was 12 faculty - 11 male and 1 female... problematic.

I looked at Hillsdale's music department and it seems a number of them would have connections to the Christian or Spiritual music business.

Michigan has a much larger & more diverse department & contains some of the up and coming disciplinary "stars" that have written recent award winning books.

Quote:
One option seems to be to take two years at Hillsdale for the experience then transfer to Michigan for the credential, plus Hillsdale does not offer engineering if that is what he actually ends up wanting to do.
I would not recommend that.

Quote:
So the question is not delicious vs Honeycrisp apples, but apples vs pizza.

Of course if Hillsdale does not offer him $25,000 or more in scholarship, it will not really be a question.

BTW for those who are asking, he wants to stay relatively near home and most of his siblings. He did apply to U - Toledo and Bowling Green. He loved the Toledo Campus and his sister will be teaching classes at Bowling green in Jannuary as she completes her PhD. But neither one is really competitive with U-M. I am not sure why he is not considering Indiana given their highly rated trumpet program, but it is his choice. I am not going to strong arm him into going somewhere that he is not excited to attend.

I figured he woudl go to UNT no question since most of my wife's family lives less than 20 miles away and that is the best option for jazz trumpet. But then I was surprised when he announced he was not going to focus on trumpet as a career. I do not think he knows what he wants for a career, but the nomadic lifestyle of a creative performer, or the dull mechanical work of an orchestra player do not appeal to him. His sister is a music teacher and being broke and dealing with the nightmare that is now the business of teaching has little appeal either (although possibly some appeal). He wants to stick with trumpet since he is so good at it and loves it, but he is looking for something different as a primary base, possibly something that can be tied to his music but with a steady paycheck and not dull. Who knows what he wall find. When I started school I thought I was going to be an actor. I ended up deciding to go to law school part way through so I majored in whatever had the shortest lines at registration. However it was a big change from acting. His brother started out in Mechanical Engineering and is now an Information Systems major. One sister started with a science orientation, possibly medicine or even politics. She ended up on the road to becoming a psychology professor. For many or most people, what you think you want to do based only on high school experience really has little relation to your ultimate career path.
If it were me, I would try to advise him to keep his options open. I often deal with students who come in with a particular path in mind, then change it quite drastically, but for the better, a third or half-way through. There's so much pressure on high school kids now to know precisely what they want to do with their lives. I don't think I could have handled that stress when I was 18.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,243 posts, read 3,404,534 times
Reputation: 8787
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
This thread is so funny, I love watching a democrat and a republican rip each other over ideology.


I actually know someone who graduated from Hillsdale. I never realized that it was such a major issue. There are literally hundreds of small colleges out there. Many are religious. I think that many are missing the point that the OP's son wants to go to a LOCAL school.


The person that I know is a CPA, and works in a large firm here in Montana. Here is his pro's.


1. He loved the small class sizes, and the fact that he had access to his professors.


2. He loved the small campus size, and that he could walk everywhere.


3. He loved the other students, they were on the "nerdy" side, like him. He was awkward, and shy, and he felt that he fit right in.


4. He absolutely hates sports, and didn't want to go to a college where he would be expected to be all "rah rah" about the college sports teams.


5. He loved the focus on U.S. history and the constitution, and loved attending the speeches by the guest speakers they invited.


The only thing that he didn't like, was the tuition. After Hillsdale, he did attend a big state school, to get a masters degree. He told me that he would have never graduated if he attended there from the beginning. There was simply too many distractions. He said he didn't have any interactions with the music department, apart from listening to them on many occasions when they performed on campus.
Except for #5, which at Hillsdale is a very particular approach, those other factors would be present at most decent small private universities. The campus community & greater connections between faculty, staff, & students are indeed their appeal vs. larger public universities. That's what makes private college special and why you pay the big bucks for it.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 01:49 PM
 
698 posts, read 384,082 times
Reputation: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok, I still haven't seen you provide any evidence that a significant number of employers have a negative view of Hillsdale or that a significant number of Hillsdale grads can't find a good job.
Same old story, same old song and dance. The reputation of Hillsdale precedes it, and hardly in a good way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
There are probably not many other colleges that are as positive about free market Austrian economic theory as Hillsdale.
"Austrian economics" itself is a complete fraud. The very name was dredged up in the 1970's from a long-forgotten late 19th century debate between a group of German academics and a group of Austrian academics that the Germans had been laughing at. For 80 years after, there was nary a mention of anything called the "Austrian school." It's not a "tradition." There was never an "Austrian" economist who realized at the time that he was an "Austrian", save for those who had in fact been born in a place that was at the time called Austria. The whole heterodox ball of anarcho-capitalistic Austrian wax is actually just an imaginary tale made up from the legendary past.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 01:57 PM
 
5,516 posts, read 3,370,127 times
Reputation: 13968
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsvibe View Post
I actually know someone who graduated from Hillsdale. I never realized that it was such a major issue. There are literally hundreds of small colleges out there. Many are religious. I think that many are missing the point that the OP's son wants to go to a LOCAL school.


The person that I know is a CPA, and works in a large firm here in Montana. Here is his pro's.


1. He loved the small class sizes, and the fact that he had access to his professors.


2. He loved the small campus size, and that he could walk everywhere.


3. He loved the other students, they were on the "nerdy" side, like him. He was awkward, and shy, and he felt that he fit right in.


4. He absolutely hates sports, and didn't want to go to a college where he would be expected to be all "rah rah" about the college sports teams.


5. He loved the focus on U.S. history and the constitution, and loved attending the speeches by the guest speakers they invited.


The only thing that he didn't like, was the tuition. After Hillsdale, he did attend a big state school, to get a masters degree. He told me that he would have never graduated if he attended there from the beginning. There was simply too many distractions. He said he didn't have any interactions with the music department, apart from listening to them on many occasions when they performed on campus.
I also know someone who graduated from Hillsdale. In fact, I actually visited the school while he was there and stayed in a dorm. Everyone was friendly and the campus was charming. I would say that all the pros you mentioned, were also pros for him.

After graduation, my friend worked for a number of years as a software developer with Pearson Education and is now a product & engineering manager at IBM. I certainly never heard that his degree from Hillsdale hindered him in any way. For what it's worth, he also met his wife there.

I'm a little shocked by all the hostility in this thread.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 02:10 PM
 
698 posts, read 384,082 times
Reputation: 854
What I'm surprised by would not be called hostility.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 02:11 PM
 
Location: WI
2,820 posts, read 3,067,000 times
Reputation: 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
$48 K is what they told him when he was there. $50K is what they told my daughter 8 years ago.

I suspect the $37K may be an average after deducing their average scholarship. Or maybe it is tuition only, without adding in room and board, books, fees, etc. At least that is the only way I can make sense of it.
Here's what their website says.
https://www.hillsdale.edu/admissions...ion-and-costs/
Basic expenses for the 2017-2018 academic year at Hillsdale are as follows:

Tuition*
$25,540
Room
$5,240

Board (Knorr Family Dining Room)
$5,370

General Student Usage Fee
$316

Technology Fee
$170

Student Center and HESC Fee
$716

Total
$37,352

*Tuition includes both Fall and Spring semesters with a course load of 12-17 credits.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 02:18 PM
 
Location: WI
2,820 posts, read 3,067,000 times
Reputation: 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I agree with your suggestions about the net price calculator but disagree with your last paragraph. We allowed our kids to apply wherever they wanted but told them up front just how much we would be paying. We talked quite a bit about student loans and how that would impact their future. I drove the college search for all of my kids and I focused on their wants - major, size of school, general location, study abroad opportunities and chance of merit aid. Each of my kids had a different major in mind and a different set of priorities but all were very cognizant of the bottom line. There's a lot of talk about college grads having huge student loans and part of that is a lack of research/education on the part of parents and students. The money component is HUGE and not something that should be a surprise.
We only allowed our children to apply to state schools or schools that offer significant merit aid, because that's what we could afford. There was absolutely no reason to even look at schools that didn't offer merit aid, because we knew the finances would not work out. I do not think it is fair to hold that carrot in front of kids, to allow kids to fall in love with schools that are not going to work out financially.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 02:33 PM
 
7,031 posts, read 3,760,683 times
Reputation: 8362
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I agree with your suggestions about the net price calculator but disagree with your last paragraph. We allowed our kids to apply wherever they wanted but told them up front just how much we would be paying. We talked quite a bit about student loans and how that would impact their future. I drove the college search for all of my kids and I focused on their wants - major, size of school, general location, study abroad opportunities and chance of merit aid. Each of my kids had a different major in mind and a different set of priorities but all were very cognizant of the bottom line. There's a lot of talk about college grads having huge student loans and part of that is a lack of research/education on the part of parents and students. The money component is HUGE and not something that should be a surprise.
We're actually saying the same thing, I think.

In my experience, as a retired college counselor who worked with thousands of families over the year, a surprising number of families don't do what you did and discuss the bottom line with their kids their kids send off applications. They just hope for the best and keep their fingers crossed. And, then the financial aid offers come in and there is a shock.

I've had plenty of kids sit in my office crying because their parents told them to apply anywhere, and then later said, "well, we can't/won't pay that" after the student got in. In more than a few cases, it came down to a difference of a few thousand dollars.

Every family, of course, has to make decisions about how much they'll be willing and/or able to stretch (or not) to pay for particular college choices. But, unfortunately, not every family takes the approach that you did in discussing money, student loans, scholarships before the applications are sent out.

The Net Price Calculators at least give families a tool for getting an early estimate of how the financial side of things might compare at various schools and that can help those discussions happen earlier on.
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