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Old 11-10-2017, 11:17 AM
 
698 posts, read 383,319 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Your problem with Hillsdale is you are a liberal and Hilldale has a conservative reputation.
Your problem may be that you are a conservative while facts appear to you as some sort of liberal construct. A resumé or CV that includes any of the institutions noted above will raise red flags. It's that simple.

 
Old 11-10-2017, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Denver area
21,139 posts, read 22,112,687 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
I went to Albion in the 90s (pretty centrist, strongly pro-business back then). It's a really good school but the surrounding town has serious issues.

I was on the swim team, and we were amused how Hillsdale had just spent huge money on a new aquatics center, but had not done the basics of making sure the pool met health and safety rules for it. Lovely 3 meter diving board that no one could use because the area under it did not meet minimum legal water depth for that height. But I digress even though there's probably a message about libertarianism and The Real World somewhere in there.

I'd give a look at Hope. Better academic reputation than Hillsdale, IMO, Holland can be a fun town (and GR is a short road trip away) and while right-leaning does not have the dogma that the 'Dale does. I know a number of people who aren't Christian Reformed who were very happy with their educational experience there and were well-positioned for job or grad school after graduation.
I was also going to suggest Albion or Hope.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,091 posts, read 3,201,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VendorDude View Post
Your problem may be that you are a conservative while facts appear to you as some sort of liberal construct. A resumé or CV that includes any of the institutions noted above will raise red flags. It's that simple.
Ok, you've provided no evidence of that, and as I pointed out, Hillsdale doesn't have a theology college so it can't be similar to Bob Jones and Liberty. Hillsdale is set up like a typical liberal arts college. The main difference is they require a class on the Constitution and their economics department has an 'appreciation' for free market / Austrian economic theory in the mold of F.A. Hayek which is probably rare at colleges.

I know Sam Ponder on ESPN and Shannon Bream on Fox News both went to Liberty and they are making good money now. How do you explain that given your narrative?

Your problem is you think your liberal opinions on things are facts. People disagree on the facts. You do not appear to have any tolerance of that. Regarding global warming, two examples of scientists who disgree with it is NASA scientist Roy Spencer, and a MIT climate science professor. Yet you insist it is settled science.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-10-2017 at 12:01 PM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
24,718 posts, read 59,596,711 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post

I'd give a look at Hope. Better academic reputation than Hillsdale, IMO, Holland can be a fun town (and GR is a short road trip away) and while right-leaning does not have the dogma that the 'Dale does. I know a number of people who aren't Christian Reformed who were very happy with their educational experience there and were well-positioned for job or grad school after graduation.
Look that up. Hillsdale was ranked 71 among liberal arts colleges and Hope is ranked 106. I have a friend whose daughter went to Hope. She had a wild time then calmed down and went to Hope. My fried always said she set the record for the most tatted and pierced student to ever attend Hope College. He thought it was funny that she ended up there. She is literally covered and tattoos and piercings.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,397,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
He is thinking a dual major Trumpet Performance and Computer Engineering. However sometimes he is not sure he wants to major in music at all. He dislikes being broke. He loves playing the trumpet. It may become a minor if a lucrative major proves to be too challenging to double major. One problem he has is high school has not been all that challenging for him (I think one or two AP classes were somewhat challenging to him, but he has never had a semester where he is just slammed), so he has no idea how much of a challenge he can handle. Would Michigan be overwhelming? Would other schools be dull? He just does not know.

I am not aware of any school asking him to "audtion" per se. He did send a video to some schools I think. All of the schools he has visited, he had a free lesson with the trumpet teacher, except one where they could not find the guy. He played with/for the teacher, but did not actually audition. So far, all of them have wanted him in their school, he is pretty good and I am told has remarkable tone (I am not completely clear on what that means, I think I understand, but I ma not a technical music person - I can play the radio). Some schools told him wh would need to audition separately for Marching band, but he hates marching, so he is not interested unless they are going to offer him a huge scholarship to march.

Some of the schools already know him because he has played with summer programs and played with the jazz band of a local university in a dual enrollment class, so he has encountered quite a few of the university trumpet profs already.

Some of the schools have very strong music programs (U-M, Western MI, MSU) Hillsdale obviously does not, since he would be their top trumpet player as a freshman. On the other hand he really liked the teacher and they have some amazing jazz musicians visit the campus every year. Some schools do not have that great of a music school overall, but they have one professor in a specific instrument who is amazing. Not sure whether that is the case here.

He does not want to pursue professional performance because the nomadic lifestyle does not appeal to him and he has been told repeatedly that paying with an orchestra for a career becomes stifling and mechanical after a few years. However he would like to do something in music. He just does not know what. He may go to law school and/or business school and become an agent or some sort of music business professional.


I am a firm believer that getting your butt kicked in an super tough school and being miserable for four years so you can go work in a super demanding job that leaves you no life and miserable but pays extremely well - is a terrible life choice. Thus, someplace like Hillsdale that might be more pleasant and a better learning experience and still not limit him overly much has some appeal.

I went to Michigan (for law school) as did my wife undergrad, we loved it, but many of the students and professors tend to have a smug we are better attitude and the competition drives many students to pursue academics over all else in life. You can avoid it, but is it better to simply go someplace where the students and profs have a better attitude?

I think it is really boiling down to a contest between U-M and Hillsdale for him. He still needs to visit Western and possibly Albion, but they are not high on his list of options right now. He has not gotten his acceptance letter from U-M yet, but his grades and test scores are very good, so it would be a surprise if he did not get accepted there. (His sister and brother were both accepted with lower qualifications). U-M is clearly the most prestigious school in the state/region, but he is not fond of the campus or the attitude.

thanks for the input those of you who provided some. I will discuss this with him.
Those seem like such disparate choices though. Not only because of the campus culture, but also just because of the differences in size and scope. The experience will be significantly different depending on this choice.

Are there no other "in-between" choices to think about? If he doesn't want to shoot for professional musician such as city symphony orchestras, etc... then the business or education sides of music are his remaining career targets. I would think that U-M has a lot better options & networking opportunity for that, but then I'm not sure. I can't imagine the choice is this binary. Music departments vary widely and the music field is highly networked. "Who you worked with" and the reputation factor of those mentors is a big deal.

FWIW - from my searches online of blog posts, etc..., it seems that what few liberals that can be found at Hillsdale exist in the arts & performance-related majors. The big difference with Hillsdale is how conservative its core curriculum is, especially humanities. They have basically rejected every movement that has impacted the liberal arts for the last 75 years. It's an... interesting.... mix of what you'd find at a bible college but with some libertarian influence. Heavy doses of C.S. Lewis & similar philosophy and Western/Classical philosophy, "Great Books," etc.... They are very big on "Western" everything. When I looked at its core curriculum, what they do would have been conservative even by the standards of colleges before 1960s reforms. They have some of their course materials available for free online (probably part of their marketing). I would recommend checking those out and seeing what both you and your son think. I listened to two lectures from the "Western Heritage" course that they require for a BA.

If your son is thinking of targeting the Christian music business in any way... that's where Hillsdale may become more competitive.

Last edited by redguard57; 11-10-2017 at 01:01 PM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 01:53 PM
 
1,938 posts, read 3,302,275 times
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If he wants to dual major with one being music.........


Our son attended University of Miami, a highly rated Jazz program. His degree was Music Engineering, pretty much the same as the Electrical Engineering option of Audio Engineering but with substantial music classes included. He took additional classes during his years on campus and graduated with a triple minor: Electrical Engineering, Mathematics, and Legal Studies.


He is now an Intellectual Property Attorney performing Patent Research with a specialization in audio and sound reproduction devices.


He was also a Music and Science geek in HS with lots of AP Classes, as I am guessing your son is. Miami awarded him one heck of a scholarship for his skills on the Bass Guitar.


Nothing wrong with your son taking a Double Major in two areas he loves!
 
Old 11-10-2017, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,091 posts, read 3,201,164 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
When I looked at its core curriculum, what they do would have been conservative even by the standards of colleges before 1960s reforms. .
Are you accusing Hillsdale of racism or suggesting conservatism was pro-racism and segregation? What are you talking about with '1960s reforms'?

Hillsdale allowed black students to enroll prior to the Civil War and it was the 2nd college to confer degrees to women, according to the Wikipedia page.

Can you give specific examples of curriculum that is typical of something taught prior to '1960's reforms'?

One thing that is common with many Democratic voters today is they try to associate the racism of the Democratic party back in the day with conservatism. Many of the colleges will teach that Nixon had a 'Southern Strategy' based on luring white racists over from the Democratic party. They don't mention that Nixon was for civil rights and opposed to segregation. These colleges won't mention the fact that as the south became more educated and affluent, it switched from being controlled by Democratics to a majority Republican. This is just one example of the political 'dogma' that students will get at many colleges.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-10-2017 at 02:28 PM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
6,724 posts, read 11,744,049 times
Reputation: 19361
OP, I think he probably cannot go wrong if he attends U. of M. OK, I'm a bit biased, I went to grad school there and absolutely loved it, but still.

Seriously, I always tell my students (I'm a college prof in New Hampshire now) that while I loved Michigan for grad school, I would have hated it for undergrad -- it's just too big. BUT, I knew enough undergrads there from TA'ing for several years, that many of them loved it and did NOT feel "lost," as I think I would have. I think the key is becoming involved in smaller communities at Michigan, and your son might be able to do that through music programs, maybe?

In addition, while U. of M. has a tendency to be seen as liberal, not EVERYONE there is -- there are conservative organizations on campus too. I THINK there are religious organizations too that your son could get involved in, although it doesn't sound like he'd be too interested. (Sorry, I'm pretty much an atheist, so I don't know much about all this.)

As for what the professor did with your daughter: may I say, as a U.-of-M.-educated Ph.D., I find it appalling. I would NEVER do that to a student, and I don't know too many professors who would. Singling out a student to speak for "all her people" is horrendous (and honestly, just STUPID too).

OP, best of luck to your son with his decision! And GO BLUE!

Last edited by toobusytoday; 12-08-2017 at 08:34 AM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
6,724 posts, read 11,744,049 times
Reputation: 19361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok, having a debate or discussion about the topic of the thread isn't hijacking the topic. The topic is about Hillsdale, which you admit that you have not discussed.

By your own logic, people can only talk to each other if they agree on issues.
<sigh> OK, carry on. I hope the OP is finding your argument useful.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Southern New Hampshire
6,724 posts, read 11,744,049 times
Reputation: 19361
Wow, OP, aren't you glad you started this thread?

Seriously, I hope your son gets into U. of M. and makes his decision about where to go (whether it's Hillsdale or U. of M. or somewhere else that ends up looking great) based on what he wants to do with his future. As for other posters who seem to just want to argue with everyone about everything ... holy crap.
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