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Old 11-10-2017, 04:02 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,244 posts, read 3,404,534 times
Reputation: 8787

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Are you accusing Hillsdale of racism or suggesting conservatism was pro-racism and segregation? What are you talking about with '1960s reforms'?

Hillsdale allowed black students to enroll prior to the Civil War and it was the 2nd college to confer degrees to women, according to the Wikipedia page.

Can you give specific examples of curriculum that is typical of something taught prior to '1960's reforms'?

One thing that is common with many Democratic voters today is they try to associate the racism of the Democratic party back in the day with conservatism. Many of the colleges will teach that Nixon had a 'Southern Strategy' based on luring white racists over from the Democratic party. They don't mention that Nixon was for civil rights and opposed to segregation. These colleges won't mention the fact that as the south became more educated and affluent, it switched from being controlled by Democratics to a majority Republican. This is just one example of the political 'dogma' that students will get at many colleges.
What the hell are you even talking about? How is Nixon relevant here?

Short answer to all of those questions: no. In this case I was referring to small-c conservatism in the program development and availability of courses.

You can look at Hillsdale's core curriculum list for yourself. What I notice is, a student can get through and never learn much of anything about any non-western culture. I'll use English as an example. Here is what an English major at Hillsdale will take. https://www.hillsdale.edu/majors-min.../requirements/

Even at another conservative college - Wheaton, that English major will take something that's non-British or non-American, and there is also a greater array of options as far as timeline and thematic concentration https://www.wheaton.edu/academics/pr...concentration/ Although it is still very oriented around the Western Canon, there is some more creativity there.

An English major at Michigan will have more opportunity still for a wider array:
https://lsa.umich.edu/english/underg...uirements.html

Even in the 1950s, most colleges would have had a broader array of course selection, that looked at something from non-western culture more than what Hillsdale offers.

Here is Hillsdale's core curriculum:
https://www.hillsdale.edu/academics/...ral-arts-core/

Compare it to another conservative private college, Samford University in Alabama, which incidentally is higher ranked than Hillsdale:
https://www.samford.edu/programs/und...eral-education

What is the difference? The big one is their "cultural perspectives" requirement. https://www.samford.edu/programs/und...l-perspectives

Last edited by redguard57; 11-10-2017 at 04:24 PM..

 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2340
Ok, so why did you say 1960s reforms? I think most people are going to think you are talking about the civil rights legislation in the 1960s. You seemed to think people would automatically understand what you mean by '1960s reforms'. If not civil rights legislation, what reforms?

I thought you were trying to say Hillsdale has some kind of segregation era mindset. Your point appeared to be Hillsdale is stuck in the past and you mentioned 1960s, which is associated with civil rights legislation in the minds of people.

Most students at any college are not learning about non western cultures unless they are majoring in something along those lines. They can only require so many core classes because students have to major in something. I went to a large state university and I was not required to take any non-western civ or literature class.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-10-2017 at 04:20 PM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:23 PM
 
146 posts, read 60,791 times
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Hillsdale is a country club for right-wing extremists. There's nothing more to it than that.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:28 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2340
So if a college or a person isn't liberal, the college or the person is a right wing extremist?

I'm kind of doubting any kid or graduate of Hillsdale can be called an extremist.

Hillsdale is ranked well by several publications which is incredible if it is an extremist institution.

This 'extremist' institution was for the abolition of slavery back in the day, allowed blacks students on its founding in 1840s and second one in country to confer liberal arts degrees to women.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:33 PM
 
146 posts, read 60,791 times
Reputation: 345
So often indeed it is the case that non-liberals are right-wing extremists.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,244 posts, read 3,404,534 times
Reputation: 8787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok, so why did you say 1960s reforms? I think most people are going to think you are talking about the civil rights legislation in the 1960s. You seemed to think people would automatically understand what you mean by '1960s reforms'. If not civil rights legislation, what reforms?

I thought you were trying to say Hillsdale has some kind of segregation era mindset. Your point appeared to be Hillsdale is stuck in the past and you mentioned 1960s, which is associated with civil rights legislation in the minds of people.

Most students at any college are not learning about non western cultures unless they are majoring in something along those lines. They can only require so many core classes because students have to major in something. I went to a large state university and I was not required to take any non-western civ or literature class.
Well, the big difference between private and public, **generally speaking**, will be that you pay more for private, and there are advantages and disadvantages to that.

For that premium price you get a more of a catered and intimate experience, which will include a more prescribed selection of courses that reflects the college's values & the values of the communities they draw from. A lot of them will base this on their religious denominational affiliation. Long story short, there's more in loco parentis.

Large public universities offer as much as they can afford to offer and give the students a ton of choice with far fewer restrictions on what courses fulfull what requirements. Prior to the 1960s public universities also had a lot of in loco parentis and top-down, patriarchal curriculum decisions. In other words, the faculty decided what was best for the students to take. Student protest changed all that and threw in loco parentis in the trash as far as most state universities and college are concerned; it's how we got relaxation of course requirements, a more diverse array of options to fulfull them, new disciplines such as gender studies based on what was being ignored in the traditional formulations of disciplines, etc... Hillsdale is a college that has rejected much of that, even more than most conservative private universities that reject some.

The advantage of a place like Hillsdale is that you will get a very catered and intentionally designed course curriculum. Large public universities tend to be more... laissez-faire... in the way they have students make course selection. Notice how much more vague University of Michigan's core curriculum is:

https://admissions.umich.edu/summary...e-requirements

and how much more difficult it is to even find a choice. For that "race & ethnicity" requirement there are literally 112 choices in winter 2018 term.
http://www.lsa.umich.edu/cg/cg_resul...how=20&reqs=RE

Last edited by redguard57; 11-10-2017 at 04:52 PM..
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2340
Ok, I still don't understand why you said '1960s reforms'.

And in my view, Hillsdale has a typical liberal arts core curriculum outside of the required class about the Constitution, which I think is a good thing.

I was expecting HIllsdale ot have some required Bible based classes, based on people on here putting a emphasis that it is Christian, but that does not appear to be the case.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:46 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2340
Ok, what specifically is extremist about Hillsdale college or its student/alumni? I would expect the kids at Hillsdale to be good polite students serious about academics and their career, given their academic stats and the high cost to attend Hillsdale.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,244 posts, read 3,404,534 times
Reputation: 8787
Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
Ok, I still don't understand why you said '1960s reforms'.

And in my view, Hillsdale has a typical liberal arts core curriculum outside of the required class about the Constitution, which I think is a good thing.

I was expecting HIllsdale ot have some required Bible based classes, based on people on here putting a emphasis that it is Christian, but that does not appear to be the case.
Because that is when most public universities changed how they work in response to student protests that shut down a lot of campuses, most notably Berkeley.
 
Old 11-10-2017, 05:04 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,100 posts, read 3,211,372 times
Reputation: 2340
Ok. Given the small size of Hillsdale and the fact it is private, I think they have to limit the number of classes they have to keep costs down.

There is no doubt a great variety of courses at the large public universities.

In my view, the major classes are the important thing as far as getting into a field of interest after graduation. I can't see most employers caring if you took non-western civ, culture, literature classes.

A lot of the core curriculum at my college was just a repeat of things taught in high school and I was able to use AP credits to get out of taking them. For my liberal arts electives, I took courses with the reputation for being easy so I could focus more on my major classes.

Last edited by ClemVegas; 11-10-2017 at 05:22 PM..
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