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Old 11-10-2017, 04:16 PM
 
1,946 posts, read 3,309,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

He keeps eyeing the possibility of law school. I keep telling him there are two things I do not want him to become: 1. A hipster; 2. a lawyer.

We have two lawyers in the family but neither uses their degree/license in the 'traditional' lawyer sense. Lots of well paying jobs out there that require a JD and the critical thinking you acquire earning the degree but have nothing to do with Personal Torts or Criminal Law.

Our two kids who are lawyers tell others to not pursue the degree. Nearly all of their friends accepted $35K jobs out of Law School because nothing else was available. $180K in loans and working for only $35K - not a recipe for success.

If he is interested in Univ of Michigan and Engineering, suggest he check-out U of M Dearborn in addition to the Ann Arbor based program.

As a final plug for Miami:


http://musicengineering.frost.miami....ing/index.html

 
Old 11-11-2017, 06:26 AM
 
12,455 posts, read 27,097,479 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
My son went and visited Hillsdale in his college section process. He loved a lot about it. We are aware it is purportedly the flagship of conservative colleges however people who really know it say it is just non-liberal and in the college world non-liberal is automatically alt right. He is looking to us for advice in his selection process and with Hillsdale, I am not certain how to advise him.

He attended a class, talked with students, played with the Jazz teacher. So he got a pretty decent feel for what it is like. They told him he would be the top trumpet player there (which was both flattering and not encouraging)

It is religious oriented, but hardly alt-right/Nazi.

We know it is small, highly selective and therefore probably highly qualified academically. It is a pure liberal arts school in the old fashioned sense of the word. While they have majors, everyone comes out with a well rounded education. The computer majors learn Shakespeare and Kant, and the English majors take science classes.

Classes are typically 15 - 20 students. Which is great for faster learning. They get some amazing speakers (and jazz musicians) visiting campus. It is a beautiful campus in a tiny run down town in the middle of nowhere. There is not much to do off campus except visit other nearby universities. It is insanely expensive (48K) but they offer lots of scholarships

On thing I am puzzling over is how it is viewed int he academic/employment world. The approach and concept is so different from other colleges I am not sure how to compare it. He is also considering University of Michigan, which is a powerhouse giant in nearly every field. Big school, huge classes, lots of TAs not much personal consideration if any. But of course everyone recognizes a U-M degree and it can open a lot of doors. while I am sure he will be admitted to U-M it is unlikely he will get any scholarships there. It costs about $26,000 (unless he commutes from home which is possible)

I am curious what other people think of Hillsdale, especially anyone who went there recently.
Bringing back the OP to re-fresh my understanding of what we're looking for. From another post, I understand that your son, Coldjensens might want to double major in engineering and music. Coincidentally, my husband is an engineer and plays the trumpet. One of my kids went to a small private Christian college in the mid-west. We live in Pennsylvania.

My suggestion is that you have your son apply to every college he's interested in and then wait for the financial aid offers to come in so you have a real comparison. Have him do the accepted students weekend and see where he feels comfortable. I would absolutely recommend attending one or two classes in the core classes needed for engineering. My husband was a music major to start with but found out quickly that he simply liked to play and was not suited to teach it nor was good enough to perform professionally and earn a living. He was a good player too - first chair in all state band. He still plays, but in a local band and earns a living as an engineer. Best of both worlds.

My child that went to the small private in the mid-west was able to then get into a top rated grad school after a few years of real-life experience, post undergrad. She got an excellent education in the small college setting, made friends/connections that helped later and became a lefty liberal in a college whose framework was definitely conservative but allowed students to learn how to think more deeply and strongly encouraged participation, in class and on campus. Oh, and she got a similar amount of merit aid that I see would be available at Hillsdale: https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/...?schoolId=1759

Coldjensens, did you say your son was a senior? If so, then I would also encourage whoever is driving the college process to find another small college with engineering and a good music program. Wheaton has an excellent reputation but the chance of substantial merit aid is slim. https://www.collegedata.com/cs/data/...?schoolId=1714 Apply and then see what the financial aid package is and then visit in the Spring. Two of my three kids applied to some colleges, sight unseen, and then visited in the Spring. My one son chose a college that he only saw after applying.

Something that appealed to one of my sons when we looked at Penn State was that his potential major had a residential option for the first two years. We felt that would really help break an overwhelmingly big college into something manageable. He did not end up there but that's something that might work at the University of Michigan.
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Old 11-11-2017, 11:17 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,601 posts, read 21,790,175 times
Reputation: 44449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
My son went and visited Hillsdale in his college section process. He loved a lot about it. We are aware it is purportedly the flagship of conservative colleges however people who really know it say it is just non-liberal and in the college world non-liberal is automatically alt right. He is looking to us for advice in his selection process and with Hillsdale, I am not certain how to advise him.

He attended a class, talked with students, played with the Jazz teacher. So he got a pretty decent feel for what it is like. They told him he would be the top trumpet player there (which was both flattering and not encouraging)

It is religious oriented, but hardly alt-right/Nazi.

We know it is small, highly selective and therefore probably highly qualified academically. It is a pure liberal arts school in the old fashioned sense of the word. While they have majors, everyone comes out with a well rounded education. The computer majors learn Shakespeare and Kant, and the English majors take science classes.

Classes are typically 15 - 20 students. Which is great for faster learning. They get some amazing speakers (and jazz musicians) visiting campus. It is a beautiful campus in a tiny run down town in the middle of nowhere. There is not much to do off campus except visit other nearby universities. It is insanely expensive (48K) but they offer lots of scholarships

On thing I am puzzling over is how it is viewed int he academic/employment world. The approach and concept is so different from other colleges I am not sure how to compare it. He is also considering University of Michigan, which is a powerhouse giant in nearly every field. Big school, huge classes, lots of TAs not much personal consideration if any. But of course everyone recognizes a U-M degree and it can open a lot of doors. while I am sure he will be admitted to U-M it is unlikely he will get any scholarships there. It costs about $26,000 (unless he commutes from home which is possible)

I am curious what other people think of Hillsdale, especially anyone who went there recently.

I am an Independent College Consultant. I work with students from any and all backgrounds. If the family and student want a Roman Catholic College, I help them to find the best fits for their student.

I am not Roman Catholic.

Similarly, if the family is looking for a conservative college, I try to find the best fit for that student.

I refrain from judgement.

I've worked with several evangelical Christian families to help them to find colleges for their student.

In your case, I "know" a bit about you from years on City Data. I enjoy many of your posts, especially those about older homes as opposed to newer, cookie cutter McMansions.

Since I have known you, I have deduced that you are well educated, an attorney, have what sound like Libertarian leanings, and I never noticed that you were particularly religious. I have also noticed that you are a devoted parent. Please do correct me, if I have misread you in anyway.

Which leads me to wonder - Why Hillsdale???

I don't know your child's scores or academic achievement level, but I am going to guess that he is a very good student.

Most parents want their children to go to a college where they will be happy, fit in, flourish, and that will pave the way to an auspicious future. If the college has name recognition, one would want that to be positive. A college that opens doors is a good investment.

Since you do not present as especially "religious" on Facebook, do not post on the Christianity forum, Hillsdale is a bit of a surprise.

Am I wrong in thinking that you are not an evangelical or fundamentalist Christian?

If you and your family are not, you may want to rethink Hillsdale. You will also be labeling your child as a conservative Christian, and a fairly zealous one at that. Is this what you want?
If you live in a community of Born Again Believers, want your son to marry a person with those values, and want his CV to only catch the eye of arch conservative right wing Christians, this might be on your list.
If you want your son to work for a Conservative Christian think tank, or an organization such as Dobson's Focus on the Family, Hillsdale might be a college to consider. However, if that sort of Christianity isn't your thing, I would say "no".

There are many elite and well regarded moderate colleges, with sizable non-liberal students, chapters of The Young Republicans that are healthy, as well as libertarian groups.

There is actually a mainstream compendium of conservative colleges. I can find the name, if you like.
Large, state supported universities do have a preponderance of progressive professors.
However, there are many private colleges that have a mixture of faculty and students.

Another thing to consider is the fact that religiously affiliated colleges attract more first generation college students, than do their secular counterparts. There will be more students from blue collar families than one would find at a similarly ranked secular school. This may be what you want, and there is nothing intrinsically wrong with that. You would find the same at a Flagship state university, such as Ann Arbor.

I would agree with the posters who said that if you want your son to stay in Michigan that Albion and Hope are better choices. If out of state is an option, there are many elite colleges and universities that are not overtly religious and have a less limiting education - and reputation.


Off the top of my head, I am going to say any Polytechnic College or University, University of Chicago, Dartmouth, maybe Princeton.

Last edited by sheena12; 11-11-2017 at 11:34 PM..
 
Old 11-12-2017, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Midwest
3,723 posts, read 6,727,867 times
Reputation: 5655
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
I grew up in Michigan and Hillsdale is known (nationwide) as having a pretty far right conservative culture. At the time, I was raised in a conservative blue collar family and I looked into attending Hillsdale because of this culture. They were offering some pretty decent scholarships as well. At the end of the day, I ended up going to Michigan, and I'm glad I did. The experience really enlightened me, a lot more so than I think it would have going to a small conservative Christian school that would have only helped to further entrench me in my religious/conservative beliefs. Today, I'm neither very religious or very conservative, and I think I'm a better person for it.

If you want your son to benefit from learning from a variety of people, cultures, ideas, etc., then push him to go to a more diverse school. Being immersed in a diverse setting will give him an advantage in critical thinking, whereas being in an environment where you're just being hand fed ideas that you already believe will not do much for you other than make you more stubborn.
A typical leftist university is hardly "diverse." To the neo-comm left, anyone who doesn't agree with them is "far right." The current Democrat Party would boot JFK out so fast you wouldn't see him fly by. Things have changed.

Their son will be fed gruel of leftist propaganda and only leftist, 90%+ of the faculty are leftist at most colleges now.

He will be punished for expressing views outside of Jane Fonda/Barry Hussein Obama left wing neo-communism.

Talk about hand fed. That is what you will get at Leftie U.

Teaching the Constitution and critical thinking are more Hillsdale traditions. They accept zero federal dollars because one federal dollar is a carrot and stick. Smart.

"Diversity" means people look different. It is code for leftists who pretend to be open-minded but really are affirmative actionistas but not interested in a broad range of ideas or debates. Look at who's rioting and why.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 02:03 PM
 
2,244 posts, read 810,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dwatted Wabbit View Post
A typical leftist university is hardly "diverse." To the neo-comm left, anyone who doesn't agree with them is "far right." The current Democrat Party would boot JFK out so fast you wouldn't see him fly by. Things have changed.

Their son will be fed gruel of leftist propaganda and only leftist, 90%+ of the faculty are leftist at most colleges now.

He will be punished for expressing views outside of Jane Fonda/Barry Hussein Obama left wing neo-communism.

Talk about hand fed. That is what you will get at Leftie U.

Teaching the Constitution and critical thinking are more Hillsdale traditions. They accept zero federal dollars because one federal dollar is a carrot and stick. Smart.

"Diversity" means people look different. It is code for leftists who pretend to be open-minded but really are affirmative actionistas but not interested in a broad range of ideas or debates. Look at who's rioting and why.
If I knew this thread was going to be a soap box for disillusioned political wingnuts, I would have ignored it altogether.

My whole point here is that if OP wants the best bang for his son's educational investment, then picking the more reputable school would be my number one choice.

For all practical intents and purposes, how many more doors do you think a Hillsdale College degree is going to open for his son in comparison to a University of Michigan degree? But if OP wishes to send his son to a college that nobody outside of the most conservative circles gives two hoots about, then by all means do it. It's his son who will be competing with grads from far more reputable and prestigious schools, not me. I really couldn't care less.
 
Old 11-12-2017, 05:27 PM
 
Location: The New England part of Ohio
17,601 posts, read 21,790,175 times
Reputation: 44449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Left-handed View Post
If I knew this thread was going to be a soap box for disillusioned political wingnuts, I would have ignored it altogether.

My whole point here is that if OP wants the best bang for his son's educational investment, then picking the more reputable school would be my number one choice.

For all practical intents and purposes, how many more doors do you think a Hillsdale College degree is going to open for his son in comparison to a University of Michigan degree? But if OP wishes to send his son to a college that nobody outside of the most conservative circles gives two hoots about, then by all means do it. It's his son who will be competing with grads from far more reputable and prestigious schools, not me. I really couldn't care less.
I agree completely. Unless someone seeks employment with an Evangelical Church, or an ultra Conservative organization, Hillsdale will not "open doors".

The only people who have heard of it are arch conservatives, academics, those involved in college selection, and progressives - who do not care for it.

This school is so far to the right that like Grove City College, it refuses federal funding, which means students are not eligible for loans or grants.

One does not choose a college to make a political statement. A family, along with their student, choose a college to educate, open doors, and make connections.

Hillsdale ( along with Grove City and the only colleges I can think of that refuse federal assistance. So they are probably better known than they should be. It's students are known as ultra right wing Christian fundamentalists.

Not everyone has a positive opinion about these people.

Why handicap your child? I can understand if they want a balance, or more conservative education. And, there are plenty of less controversial - and some better known schools, that would deliver.

Hillsdale, Grove City and a few others close minds and close doors.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,243 posts, read 3,403,041 times
Reputation: 8787
I signed up for a couple of Hillsdale's free online classes and it strikes me how similar to sermons they are.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 09:53 AM
 
1,946 posts, read 3,309,957 times
Reputation: 3370
Wow!

I didn't really know if the previously posted statements that Hillsdale refused to accept Pell Grants or other State/Federal financial assistance were true until I went to their web site myself. The below paragraph is copied and pasted from Hillsdale's Admissions/Financial Aid Web site.

But what makes Hillsdale different from so many other colleges and universities is the source of that financial aid.

To maintain our institutional independence, we accept no state or federal funding—even indirectly in the form of student grants or loans. All of our financial aid packages are made possible by the gifts of hundreds of thousands of generous donors nationwide. Most of these supporters are neither alumni nor parents of graduates; they give because they believe in the need to teach the principles of liberty and independence that Hillsdale has taught and exemplified since its founding.

You still have to fill out a form, but many families find that our Hillsdale College Confidential Family Financial Statement (CFFS) is far simpler to fill out and less invasive than the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA). We’re happy to answer any questions you may have. And we’ll work closely with you to tailor a package to fit your family’s situation.



I added the underlining.

Even spending my entire life in S-E Michigan, and living close enough to Hillsdale that we went to the Hillsdale County Fair when kids some years, I did not know this fact about Hillsdale College. I knew the College had a good academic reputation. I knew the College was considered very conservative. But I didn't know this.

Wow!
 
Old 11-13-2017, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,097 posts, read 3,208,540 times
Reputation: 2335
The level of animosity by some people on here for this college is incredible.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:12 AM
 
1,946 posts, read 3,309,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Simpsonvilllian View Post
The level of animosity by some people on here for this college is incredible.
No animosity, just not my cup of tea. Everyone has different goals and mine would likely not align with yours. I tried to keep my posts truthful and objective. I am surprised that any college, conservative or liberal or neutral, would refuse to accept financial aid that a student received from a governmental source. I can understand the School not wanting to accept Direct Aid from specific sources, but not allowing the students to use aid for which they or their families qualify seems a bit overeaching.
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