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Old 11-13-2017, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Oregon, formerly Texas
5,242 posts, read 3,400,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
He hated MSU. He has been accepted to GVSU, Western, and some others I am not remembering. I assume he is accepted to Wayne since he is already going there. However only Hillsdale seems to be competing for U-M in his interest. He has another three schools to visit. I do not remember which.
Sounds like you're covering your bases in-state then. Like others have said, I'd look deeper into the various private colleges available.

What is the objection to out of state?

If you're considering private colleges, then the cost issue is not as salient and he might even get some scholarships. Depending where you are in Michigan, universities in the Chicago area, Indiana, and Ohio are within fairly easy driving distance. Also, I think there in-state tuition reciprocity agreements in place between Michigan and other midwestern states: Midwest Student Exchange Program |.

I'm just having trouble wrapping my head around the dichotomies of this choice. One is a small, private, ideologically oriented college, literally the poster boy for "education for Conservatives" - probably the most famous in that regard to be honest. The other is almost the opposite poster-boy for a "Big-Name Public Tier-1 Research University" and all that entails.

I feel like this needs a lot more discussion between you and him to suss out what it is about both he likes so much, and what are his most important priorities.

I'll address this in your original post:

Quote:
We are aware it is purportedly the flagship of conservative colleges however people who really know it say it is just non-liberal and in the college world non-liberal is automatically alt right
That sounds like what a conservative would say.

I would say that the difference is that Hillsdale is conservative by willful intention. I'm not criticizing that, it is a choice they have made and they put it up front. University of Michigan is one of the highest regarded state flagships in the country, so its intention is to have the highest ranked departments according to the specific academic disciplinary standards. The education there will be liberally oriented as a consequence of there being more liberals in the campus community, but they do not set out to be liberal.

To get your own sense of it, again, I recommend Hillsdale's online courses which are free, you can sample a number of classes that are their core curriculum. As I said, they are very much about "Western Heritage." Western Civ isn't even taught anymore at a lot of colleges; I won't go into why, suffice it to say it's out of date, but at a place like U-M they will challenge it: https://www.ii.umich.edu/lrccs/news-...-a-transl.html A university as big as U-M will still teach it since they are big, the flagship, and "researchy" enough to still have a Classics department https://lsa.umich.edu/classics/about-us.html

In fact I would recommend sitting in on the same or similar classes from the Gen Ed at both Hillsdale and U-M if that is really the choice at hand, because I can't emphasize enough that this is NOT a 1:1 choice going on here. It's far more than just Republican vs. Democrat. There is a serious difference in pedagogy and overall philosophy of education that will permeate not only a student's college career, but the career direction afterward.

Even more importantly, the types of people he will associate and network with will be very different.

That all needs to be considered.

Look at the difference in their mission statements:

http://www.accreditation.umich.edu/mission/
https://www.hillsdale.edu/about/mission/

In particular, these stand out to me:
Hillsdale:
Quote:
The College values the merit of each unique individual, rather than succumbing to the dehumanizing, discriminatory trend of so-called “social justice” and “multicultural diversity,” which judges individuals not as individuals, but as members of a group and which pits one group against other competing groups in divisive power struggles.
Michigan:
Quote:
We celebrate and promote diversity in all its forms, seeking the understanding and perspective that distinct life experiences bring. We proclaim ourselves a scholarly community in which ideas may be freely expressed and challenged, and where all people are welcomed, respected, and nurtured in their academic and social development.

Last edited by redguard57; 11-13-2017 at 06:22 PM..

 
Old 11-13-2017, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,091 posts, read 3,204,000 times
Reputation: 2334
I would say Hillsdale has the better approach. They are saying identity politics is silly, and their focus is on individuals, not members of groups.

I don't think there are too many employers that will have a problem with a western civilization based college education. Employers will mainly be looking at major and GPA and related work experience, and aren't going to do a deep dive into the curriculum anyway.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 08:05 PM
 
Location: somewhere flat
1,311 posts, read 1,113,068 times
Reputation: 3813
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
He hated MSU. He has been accepted to GVSU, Western, and some others I am not remembering. I assume he is accepted to Wayne since he is already going there. However only Hillsdale seems to be competing for U-M in his interest. He has another three schools to visit. I do not remember which.

Are you and your son very devout fundamentalist Christians? Aside from not taking federal aid being very pro-free market economy, Religion is a very big part of Hillsdale.

I grew up in a home like that. My sisters raised their kids that way and sent them to conservative Christian colleges. Your son will meet people who never use any cuss words, even mild ones. Most will think Halloween is "evil". Church talk will predominate conversations.Students attend church bright and early every Sunday morning, Many of them will have attended bible camp in the Summer, and Mission Trips during high school are rights of passage before college.

These kids are thoroughly indoctrinated in their faith. They know the bible inside and out. Do you? Does your son? Christian college students did not grow up in socially prominent denominations. These are not Republican, Brooks Brothers clad Presbyterians or Episcopalians with button down shirts. They are not prep school graduates.

Additionally, you seem to think that fundie colleges will be some kind of refuge from hipsters. That makes me laugh. I have 4 nieces and 3 nephews. While they are ultra conservative politically, all but one sport tattoos, they all wear skinny jeans, have hipster hair styles, dye their hair purple and other unnatural colors, have piercings, and have a freakish devotion to Starbucks.

They look and act like hipsters, and so do their friends.

We went to a particularly annoying hipster wedding in a field where it rained. The bride and her husband were barefoot and so were the attendants, The ceremony was annoyingly religious. And I am an ordained minister.

The reception was in the basement of their Full Gospel church. No string quartet or jazz ensemble during cocktail hour. In fact, no cocktail hour. Not even a champagne toast.

I could have used a drink, but there was no liquor. There never is.

The music was loud Christian rock and Christian rap.

Your son will be attending school with people from families like these.

Will he fit in? I don't know, because I grew up in this sub culture and most of my family are still in it.

You did not mention Jesus Christ or desiring a "Godly education" even once. For me, that's a dead giveaway.

Last edited by SoulJourn; 11-13-2017 at 08:15 PM..
 
Old 11-13-2017, 09:23 PM
 
Location: Greenville SC 'The Waterfall City'
6,091 posts, read 3,204,000 times
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I never met any Christian who thinks Halloween is 'evil'.

Hillsdale does not appear to require any Bible based classes. It appears that you are just assuming that is the case.
 
Old 11-13-2017, 10:13 PM
 
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
8,286 posts, read 5,842,747 times
Reputation: 5265
Quote:
Originally Posted by redguard57 View Post
To get your own sense of it, again, I recommend Hillsdale's online courses which are free, you can sample a number of classes that are their core curriculum. As I said, they are very much about "Western Heritage." Western Civ isn't even taught anymore at a lot of colleges; I won't go into why, suffice it to say it's out of date, but at a place like U-M they will challenge it: https://www.ii.umich.edu/lrccs/news-...-a-transl.html A university as big as U-M will still teach it since they are big, the flagship, and "researchy" enough to still have a Classics department https://lsa.umich.edu/classics/about-us.html
Other schools with a traditional liberal arts core curriculum with a Western Civ feature are

Columbia University
U of Chicago

It's supposed to make you think critically.

So that by itself doesn't necessarily point to a political orientation, though Hillsdale is pretty consciously conservative.
 
Old 11-14-2017, 01:10 AM
 
7,031 posts, read 3,752,770 times
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My son attended a small private liberal arts college with a "western Civ curriculum" that was about the size of Hillsdale for his undergraduate degree. He attended the University of Michigan for graduate school.

When he mentions his undergraduate school to employers, the main sound in the room are crickets.

When he mentions that he attended the University of Michigan, employers sit up and take notice. He landed his first two jobs out of college at least partially as a result of the contacts he made at the University of Michigan.

Your son's mileage may vary, but Hillsdale will only be a "sit up and take notice" school in certain circles.

A degree (undergraduate or graduate) from the University of Michigan will be a "sit up and take notice" choice in MOST circles.

Which circle does your son want to look for jobs in?

Last edited by RosieSD; 11-14-2017 at 02:17 AM..
 
Old 11-14-2017, 01:54 AM
 
7,031 posts, read 3,752,770 times
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Just want to add that if you don't have unlimited funds to send your kid to any college he chooses, a good starting point is to run the numbers through each college's Net Price Calculator to get an initial estimate of what you'll be expected to pay out of pocket.

Hillsdale College Net Price calculator: https://www.hillsdale.edu/admissions...rly-estimator/

University of Michigan Net Price calculator: https://finaid.umich.edu/estimate-co...ce-calculator/

Michigan State net price calculator: https://msu.studentaidcalculator.com/survey.aspx

You can find each college's net price calculator on their websites. Or, google the name of the college + "net price calculator"

If money is a concern, don't let your child apply to any college without first running your family's numbers through the net price calculator for each school on the list. I'd do this before your first college visit. There is nothing worse than letting your child get enthused about a school only to find out on April 1, after he is admitted and you get the financial aid offer, that you can't afford to send him there.

Last edited by RosieSD; 11-14-2017 at 02:13 AM..
 
Old 11-14-2017, 08:56 AM
 
12,454 posts, read 27,084,912 times
Reputation: 6946
Quote:
Originally Posted by RosieSD View Post
Just want to add that if you don't have unlimited funds to send your kid to any college he chooses, a good starting point is to run the numbers through each college's Net Price Calculator to get an initial estimate of what you'll be expected to pay out of pocket.

Hillsdale College Net Price calculator: https://www.hillsdale.edu/admissions...rly-estimator/

University of Michigan Net Price calculator: https://finaid.umich.edu/estimate-co...ce-calculator/

Michigan State net price calculator: https://msu.studentaidcalculator.com/survey.aspx

You can find each college's net price calculator on their websites. Or, google the name of the college + "net price calculator"

If money is a concern, don't let your child apply to any college without first running your family's numbers through the net price calculator for each school on the list. I'd do this before your first college visit. There is nothing worse than letting your child get enthused about a school only to find out on April 1, after he is admitted and you get the financial aid offer, that you can't afford to send him there.
I agree with your suggestions about the net price calculator but disagree with your last paragraph. We allowed our kids to apply wherever they wanted but told them up front just how much we would be paying. We talked quite a bit about student loans and how that would impact their future. I drove the college search for all of my kids and I focused on their wants - major, size of school, general location, study abroad opportunities and chance of merit aid. Each of my kids had a different major in mind and a different set of priorities but all were very cognizant of the bottom line. There's a lot of talk about college grads having huge student loans and part of that is a lack of research/education on the part of parents and students. The money component is HUGE and not something that should be a surprise.
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Old 11-14-2017, 09:07 AM
 
13,810 posts, read 4,089,738 times
Reputation: 5049
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fifty Percent Off View Post
College should be a broadening experience, not one narrowed by dogma.


You liberal!
 
Old 11-14-2017, 09:09 AM
 
13,810 posts, read 4,089,738 times
Reputation: 5049
Quote:
Originally Posted by toobusytoday View Post
I agree with your suggestions about the net price calculator but disagree with your last paragraph. We allowed our kids to apply wherever they wanted but told them up front just how much we would be paying. We talked quite a bit about student loans and how that would impact their future. I drove the college search for all of my kids and I focused on their wants - major, size of school, general location, study abroad opportunities and chance of merit aid. Each of my kids had a different major in mind and a different set of priorities but all were very cognizant of the bottom line. There's a lot of talk about college grads having huge student loans and part of that is a lack of research/education on the part of parents and students. The money component is HUGE and not something that should be a surprise.
This!,in the end my wife and I had to have our youngest take her third choice, the money was just not there.
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