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Of course there will be specific exceptions. I have worked with about 200 different companies from smallish to fortune 50. Yes there are quite a few with STEM heads, but businessmen are far more common.
History combined with an MBA seems extremely common. Big picture studies tend to serve better than detail obsessive engineers for example. Finance, economics, history, business, political science, philosophy all seem fairly common. Communications majors seem to rise to the top often, especially when combined with an MBA.
Salespersons/marketing and other people with relationship skills tend to rise to the top more readily than tech types.
It's still an overgeneralization and disingenuous. Most scientists, mathematicians, and so on will work either for the government or academia. Those STEM members are more likely than not to work for other STEM degree holders.
Not sure what "liberal arts" is supposed to mean when its apparently an umbrella for everything and anything?
As far as "non-STEM" goes, I think it's a way too broad brush to paint with, I mean obviously there are useful non-STEM degrees, BUT there is also a few that to me at least comes to mind as less than serious.
Take gender studies for example, someone tell me what extra value someone with a BSc in gender studies has to offer above a high school kid other than pink hair, a vagina-hat and leftist extremism?
If we move from the degrees to separate classes there is so much crap out there most people wouldn't even believe it. At least in America the students(or their parents) pay for their education from what I understand, but here the tax money goes down the drain for these courses and programs. A couple of years ago I heard of a university having a class for "inner well being", love when them taxes go to great stuff.
Liberal arts does not cover anything and everything. Finance, accounting, nursing, medical school, engineering, the trades, human resources, marketing, and just about every other business and healthcare training program are not liberal arts. The liberal arts do not cover vocational, technical, or professional programs.
I'm not quite sure what you're referring to "it's all Liberal Arts" because if we go by how universities name colleges, then we get: College of Agriculture, Forestry, & Life Sciences; College of Sciences (which includes math BTW); College of Engineering; College of Architecture, Arts, & Humanities (which does not include the social sciences); and several others which are the colleges at the university I graduated from.
My point being some other university will mix them another way, and another, so we really can't go by how Colleges are named.
It all comes down to there is a classic definition of Liberal Arts which includes math & science and pretty much everything. And there is the practical, working definition that's generally understood by most everyone outside academia that Liberal Arts is essentially the Humanities, Psychology and Social Science, and that the real Sciences are, in today's pragmatic definition, separate from the Liberal Arts, alongside Engineering, Agriculture and the more technical subjects.
And in a sense that's what this whole STEM vs Liberal Arts discussion comes down to: pragmatics. STEM degrees pay more on average because they are hard. And because they are hard, there are fewer people who graduate with them than there is demand for them. And because demand is higher than supply, pay is, on average, higher than non STEM degrees. Adding an A and calling it STEAM or an R for Reading and calling it STREAM does not change that fundamental. Pragmatics vs idealism.
STEM is a term that's being pushed by the government, so why not use the definition set by the government? Some of the social sciences are listed as STEM by the government. Psychology is the social science that is most likely to be categorized as STEM. It's also sometimes offered in the College of Science.
There is a shortage of technology workers. Ironically, most of these jobs have been historically done by people without degrees. It's not until employers started requiring degrees to weed out candidates that there was this expensive and time-consuming barrier to getting these jobs. Fortunately, some employers are starting to hire people out of coding bootcamps and are going back to focusing on skills, certifications, and experience.
On the other hand, the government has also acknowledged the severe shortage of mental health workers. I see you posted a thread on the federal government looking to fund STEM programs. I also posted a thread months ago on how the states and the federal government are offering tens of thousands of dollars in student loan repayment to mental health workers who work in areas with shortages of providers.
In my state, the government is not offering to repay your student loans for an engineering degree. However, they are offering up to $80k to licensed psychologists. When there are hundreds of counties with very few to no mental health professionals, this is a serious problem. These are licensed professions, so someone with a computer science degree can't treat someone with schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, anxiety, depression, or a substance use disorder. There goes your pragmatism.
If I were a politician, I'd be more concerned about people not having access to mental health treatment than employers with artificially high hiring requirements looking for an excuse to hire foreigners.
ICE (gives immigration preferences to those with STEM degrees)
Behavioral Science
Cognitive Science
Cognitive Psychology and Psycholinguistics
Comparative Psychology
Developmental and Child Psychology
Experimental Psychology
Personality Psychology
Physiological Psychology/Psychobiology
Social Psychology
Psychometrics and Quantitative Psychology
Psychopharmacology
Research and Experimental Psychology, Other
ICE (gives immigration preferences to those with STEM degrees)
Behavioral Science
Cognitive Science
Cognitive Psychology and Psycholinguistics
Comparative Psychology
Developmental and Child Psychology
Experimental Psychology
Personality Psychology
Physiological Psychology/Psychobiology
Social Psychology
Psychometrics and Quantitative Psychology
Psychopharmacology
Research and Experimental Psychology, Other
You keep posting this. NSF doesn't claim those fields are the definition of STEM just that they are science fields they fund.
Likewise, why we are going to define STEM according to the immigration and customs enforcement is ridiculous. Meanwhile they just swiped CIP codes of the Department of Ed.
There is no uniform definition of STEM, even with in the federal government there are no hard and fast rules, and pretending that immigration gets to define it for everyone is bizarre.
T Stands for technology, right? What would go under it? Just computer science? What about information systems? That's typically houses in the business school though. Personally, I majored in comp sci, but a ton of the software developers near me are mis majors. Granted, I work in the IT department of a fortune 50, not a tech start up.
Something that occurred to me recently is that health professions are not included in STEM. We're not considered "scientists", though we use a lot of science.
Something that occurred to me recently is that health professions are not included in STEM. We're not considered "scientists", though we use a lot of science.
Ditto mental health and behavioral sciences, despite the neurocognitive development angle.
They're often left out of healthcare, too, despite integrative care and biological bases of behavior.
Ditto mental health and behavioral sciences, despite the neurocognitive development angle.
They're often left out of healthcare, too, despite integrative care and biological bases of behavior.
Mental health is a part of all RN and med school curricula. Perhaps not in some of the certificate programs, e.g. LPN, CMA, CNA, radiology tech, EKG tech, EMT, etc.
You keep posting this. NSF doesn't claim those fields are the definition of STEM just that they are science fields they fund.
Likewise, why we are going to define STEM according to the immigration and customs enforcement is ridiculous. Meanwhile they just swiped CIP codes of the Department of Ed.
There is no uniform definition of STEM, even with in the federal government there are no hard and fast rules, and pretending that immigration gets to define it for everyone is bizarre.
Using ICE is better than using some random definition by people who know very little about the job market and research needs. ICE wants to give preference to people who will contribute most to the economy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt
Something that occurred to me recently is that health professions are not included in STEM. We're not considered "scientists", though we use a lot of science.
That's because applying science is not the same as being a scientist. People who work in finance and accounting use math, but they aren't mathematicians or statisticians.
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