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Old 07-21-2018, 09:53 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,844,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiociolliscalves View Post
Agreed, but those other folks generally are not driven to make these life choices by a political ideology.
Oh, but they can and do, depending on the person and the ideology.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:09 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
You must have gone to a very progressive university 40 years ago to encounter that kind of modern "political correctness" in your English 101 class, so it shouldn't have been that surprising. May I ask where you went?
Thank you. I think most people would consider it a fairly conservative university even today. I went to Clemson. Most of the professors then, and now, teach their subject without great fanfare. And unless you knew them personally, would have no idea of their politics. Most conservatives such as myself have no problem with courses being taught in these subjects, like Marxism, other religions and cultures (heck even in the military we considered it important to study those subjects because we had to understand the bigger world), so long as they are taught in an open dialog academic manner. That's how constructive learning occurs.


But even back then there were two or three professors who just couldn't leave their personal beliefs out of the classroom. One of whom was this freshman English professor, one was a freshman History professor, and one was a senior psych professor. Which is kind of the point I was trying to make. The issue with having them as professors is there was only one acceptable answer which was whichever answer fit their personal viewpoint. Open dialog wasn't possible. College is supposed to be a time of open exploration and understanding. A professor should be able to teach without interference. But at the same time that power to teach comes with a responsibility to use it wisely, not as a protected platform to expose personal beliefs. And here, 40 year later, the only things I recall from that English class was how stupid his grading was.
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:20 AM
 
2,448 posts, read 883,767 times
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Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
Oh, but they can and do, depending on the person and the ideology.
1. Who are "they?"

2. What do "they" do?
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NyWriterdude View Post
I would say every idea is worthy of being discussed in college classrooms, yes.

Just because people talk about those varying ideologies in classrooms doesn't always mean they believe in them (sometimes they do), nor it is necessarily meant for you to take these ideologies and run your life around them. The goal is to get people to THINK!
You may not have picked up on this, but I try to be quite precise with my language. At no point did I write "discussed." I wrote "taught." That is what is at issue here. I doubt anyone here objects to discussion of these intellectually bankrupt ideas that make up SJW dogma. What is at issue is the teaching of many of these ideas, the infiltration of this dogma into courses that are academically legitimate and indeed entire course built around this dogma. That is something quite different than class discussions that veer into this stuff.

You would be okay with instructors teaching ideas like normalization of pedophilia, the thesis that African countries remain underdeveloped because blacks generally have lower IQs, Western colonization helped, not hurt, less developed countries and indigenous humans, et cetera?
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Old 07-21-2018, 10:27 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
You must have gone to a very progressive university 40 years ago to encounter that kind of modern "political correctness" in your English 101 class, so it shouldn't have been that surprising. May I ask where you went?
The sort of thinking he's referencing was around twenty-five years ago within the UW System, where I attended. It's not at all difficult to believe that he might have encountered a prof forty years ago who thought the same way.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:08 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,273 posts, read 23,893,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle View Post
No, that's a trade school, not a university. A college education does and should involve taking classes outside one's major, since the true point of an education is not job training but really learning and expanding one's horizons.
Yes. Exactly.

There's nothing wrong with a trade school or a community college education. It's a great option for some professions and some people.

But a university is supposed to broaden one's perspective in a variety of ways...not just in terms of limited content.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,273 posts, read 23,893,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Even better, libraries are FREE. But going to Barnes & Noble or a library is still keeping yourself in a bubble, as you can pick & choose what to read (or not read). Most people go in already knowing what they want, and don't purposefully seek out materials that go AGAINST their beliefs... so it's good to have a "forced" situation like college, where you meet a wide variety of people and learn things you wouldn't have otherwise. You don't need to like or agree with everything, either, as any good professor welcomes dissent/debate.

So no; college is NOT just about getting a degree to find work. A lot of graduates don't end up working in the field they studied, but still (generally) find what they learned to be useful going forward. And that's not even getting into the social aspects of a college experience!

Right! It's the difference between keeping yourself in your preferred echo chamber, or hearing many voices and perspectives.
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Old 07-21-2018, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Sun City West, Arizona
50,273 posts, read 23,893,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiociolliscalves View Post
You did not successfully refute the contention. Students must accumulate credits in electives. At public universities, sections of courses quickly fill. As a result, students often have to go with second, third, fourth choices, which is how many of them arrive in these classes.

More importantly, as I already pointed out, profs in the humanities and social sciences are now specialists and a disproportionate number of them specialize gender-intersectionality/LGBT lenses. It's ignorant and/or naive to believe that these specialists teach survey courses divorced from this drivel around which their graduate studies were organized. For instance, a Recent American History course from one of these folks will look at it through the lens of "intersectionality."

Now, I know what you're thinking: "College is about 'critical thinking' and exposure to new ideas!" All true. But the ideas must have some validity. Notice how no one has actually come forward here and defended SJW dogma with any evidence. None. Bupkis. That's because SJW dogma is the most anti-scientific tripe you will ever find. You could find more science in that Tennessee creationist museum than you will find among SJW dogma. 62 genders. Implicit bias. The school-to-prison mass conspiracy theory. The universal conclusion among them that statistical disparities among groups is necessarily attributable to discrimination. The gender pay gap. We could go on and on. It's why they embrace "autoethnography" and reject rigorous examination and good, objective data. Tripe like this has no place in higher education, just as all of you would argue against Young Earth Creationism in the science classroom.

The other problem is what you noted when you mentioned "narrow outlook." Forget about gazing only within, these are the folks who explicitly look to prevent alternative viewpoints from even being presented. After all, anything counter to their religious dogma is "hate speech." This is how we get rather pedestrian, uncontroversial speakers shouted down or even banned. These are the least open-minded folks you will ever encounter.
It sounds to me as if you mostly live in a preferred echo chamber that sees one perspective.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:26 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 883,767 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
It sounds to me as if you mostly live in a preferred echo chamber that sees one perspective.
I see your ignorance extends past running a school.

As a matter of fact, I can scarcely think of a political opinion I have that hasn't changed many times in my lifetime. I also purposely invite contrary opinions in discussions. I'm also positively bored any time I'm in a room with people who agree with me. I love being the one contrary opinion. What any of that has to do with noting the pernicious effects of SJW dogma in academia you'll have to explain. Would you like to look more foolish? I'm happy to oblige.

BTW, we're now on page 25 and I'm still waiting for someone to offer up a defense, with objective evidence, of SJW dogma - implicit bias, intersectionality, school-to-prison pipeline, the patriarchy, the gender pay gap, 62 genders - all those theories. It speaks volumes that no one will step forward to do that. Simply slurs instead of arguments, as you just did.
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Old 07-22-2018, 04:51 AM
 
25,556 posts, read 23,844,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiociolliscalves View Post
You may not have picked up on this, but I try to be quite precise with my language. At no point did I write "discussed." I wrote "taught." That is what is at issue here. I doubt anyone here objects to discussion of these intellectually bankrupt ideas that make up SJW dogma. What is at issue is the teaching of many of these ideas, the infiltration of this dogma into courses that are academically legitimate and indeed entire course built around this dogma. That is something quite different than class discussions that veer into this stuff.

You would be okay with instructors teaching ideas like normalization of pedophilia, the thesis that African countries remain underdeveloped because blacks generally have lower IQs, Western colonization helped, not hurt, less developed countries and indigenous humans, et cetera?
That's generally been taught historically, and one can find that written in books up until the 1970s. And really, I hate people who try to manipulate me via my race by bringing up Black as if that will change my stance.

I have no problem with college professors discussing ANY subject including theories of RACIAL inferiority.

And no professor that I've come across has ever even discussed normalization of pedophilia.

Do you even have an university education? From an accredited university?

I have both a bachelors and a masters.

Mind you, I went for the credential, not for the politics. As a student, you do your work for the class and you do well. You may or may not agree with the professor, but that is a part of life. You won't always agree with people you for for either. Again that's life. If you can't deal with different ideas than those you like, you don't belong at an university, PERIOD.
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