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Old 07-10-2018, 02:25 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 884,298 times
Reputation: 2421

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
You certainly don't speak for many Asian-Americans, increasingly so among Asians who (at this very time) are finding out discrimination towards them (de facto or de jure) is ok, PC-wise as long as it serves progressive values (ie non-Asian minority representation). Just this year the huge fracas over NYC selective schools (single academic test merit-based) with the Hispanic Chancellor stating Asians (you people) "don't own the schools" = schools which are majority Asian and which are majority reduced or free-lunch (that's their parents' income level). There is also support for this among many anti-Asian minorities in places where Asians have been seen as getting ahead. There were a lot of protests by Asians all over NYC, covered in the Asian language presses but NOT in the liberal mainstream press, against the policy to engineer the right kind of diversity at these schools (at the expense of Asians). Asians are increasingly looking at independent voting, due to distaste for the current republican party and its abhorrent leaders and the fundamental deceit of "progressives." Its a choice between ignorance or deception with those two, in broad terms.




Your simplistic self-serving notions that Asians are automatically democratic is a facile nonsense. And it does disservice to the Asians - some of whom effectively come from 3rd world countries like the Philippines of Bangladesh, who have a -50 point disadvantage on the college entry standardized scores compared to the born-in-the-US black kid who can be middle class. Affirmative action my ass. Discriminatory action - call it what it is.


This whole thing, and Harvard's continual hiding and dragging of its feet over releasing their incriminating anti-Asian discriminatory data, is inconvenient for certain political dogmas - like your obvious one.




You are right to point out the problems of legacy admissions, but at the same time are happy to further discriminate based on race! Why not be intellectually honest with yourself instead of this silly binary dogma of liberal vs republican - that's a sham divide, both are dogmatic oppositions that involve dishonesty on some level. Any person who can get into Harvard should already have the critical thinking skills to know that.




You posted a bunch of links. Have you got a link as to what to say to your racist college student niece who thinks its ok to discriminate based on race if its on the right side of the PC fence? Who doesn't realize her per se racism. We already have got to the point where its clear Asians are discriminated against - people like you doing jack **** about that just saying - "look over there! At what the white people are doing to {insert non-Asian minority here}!"




Let me update the Asian American Coalition of Education on your post and tell them the years they've spent fighting this discrimination, on behalf of the 60 Asian grassroots organizations they represent, and their all-Asian leadership, are barking up the wrong tree. Its all just a cunning ploy by those oh-so-cerebral republicans.


Don't get blinded by anti-republican politics (understandable but still) to the point where you become intellectually dishonest.
One might even be tempted to label hers a "bad faith argument."
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:58 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 884,298 times
Reputation: 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
You certainly don't speak for many Asian-Americans, increasingly so among Asians who (at this very time) are finding out discrimination towards them (de facto or de jure) is ok, PC-wise as long as it serves progressive values (ie non-Asian minority representation). Just this year the huge fracas over NYC selective schools (single academic test merit-based) with the Hispanic Chancellor stating Asians (you people) "don't own the schools" = schools which are majority Asian and which are majority reduced or free-lunch (that's their parents' income level). There is also support for this among many anti-Asian minorities in places where Asians have been seen as getting ahead. There were a lot of protests by Asians all over NYC, covered in the Asian language presses but NOT in the liberal mainstream press, against the policy to engineer the right kind of diversity at these schools (at the expense of Asians). Asians are increasingly looking at independent voting, due to distaste for the current republican party and its abhorrent leaders and the fundamental deceit of "progressives." Its a choice between ignorance or deception with those two, in broad terms.




Your simplistic self-serving notions that Asians are automatically democratic is a facile nonsense. And it does disservice to the Asians - some of whom effectively come from 3rd world countries like the Philippines of Bangladesh, who have a -50 point disadvantage on the college entry standardized scores compared to the born-in-the-US black kid who can be middle class. Affirmative action my ass. Discriminatory action - call it what it is.


This whole thing, and Harvard's continual hiding and dragging of its feet over releasing their incriminating anti-Asian discriminatory data, is inconvenient for certain political dogmas - like your obvious one.




You are right to point out the problems of legacy admissions, but at the same time are happy to further discriminate based on race! Why not be intellectually honest with yourself instead of this silly binary dogma of liberal vs republican - that's a sham divide, both are dogmatic oppositions that involve dishonesty on some level. Any person who can get into Harvard should already have the critical thinking skills to know that.




You posted a bunch of links. Have you got a link as to what to say to your racist college student niece who thinks its ok to discriminate based on race if its on the right side of the PC fence? Who doesn't realize her per se racism. We already have got to the point where its clear Asians are discriminated against - people like you doing jack **** about that just saying - "look over there! At what the white people are doing to {insert non-Asian minority here}!"




Let me update the Asian American Coalition of Education on your post and tell them the years they've spent fighting this discrimination, on behalf of the 60 Asian grassroots organizations they represent, and their all-Asian leadership, are barking up the wrong tree. Its all just a cunning ploy by those oh-so-cerebral republicans.


Don't get blinded by anti-republican politics (understandable but still) to the point where you become intellectually dishonest.
Ah, so if many or most Asian-Americans support affirmative action, we as a whole should not pursue changes that will benefit them? Interesting logic. At one time in the late 1800s and early 1900s, most women opposed women's suffrage because they feared they'd be exposed to the draft and face other dangers reserved for men. I take it the suffragettes and legislators should've abandoned the effort until more women came to their senses?

Gee, this does really strike me as a textbook example of an argument advanced in "bad faith."
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Old 07-11-2018, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Sioux Falls, SD area
4,833 posts, read 6,846,884 times
Reputation: 10123
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Colleges also accept lots of non-Americans. Students from many different countries come to America to attend college. 1.1 million international students attended a college in the USA in 2017.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/arti...-united-states

Acknowledged. Perhaps you should read the rest of my post.
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Old 07-13-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,921 posts, read 4,760,576 times
Reputation: 1720
Wouldn't be easier just to change your name and not disclose your race? Or is that mandatory?
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Old 07-13-2018, 12:04 PM
 
3,437 posts, read 3,264,160 times
Reputation: 2508
Quote:
Originally Posted by jobaba View Post


Asian-Americans usually have generic college resumes because most of their effort comes from pressure from their parents.

so the student who takes their place are exceptional? even though they are way below in whatever matrix you could use?
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:16 PM
 
1,183 posts, read 700,717 times
Reputation: 3240
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiociolliscalves View Post
Ah, so if many or most Asian-Americans support affirmative action, we as a whole should not pursue changes that will benefit them? Interesting logic. At one time in the late 1800s and early 1900s, most women opposed women's suffrage because they feared they'd be exposed to the draft and face other dangers reserved for men. I take it the suffragettes and legislators should've abandoned the effort until more women came to their senses?

Gee, this does really strike me as a textbook example of an argument advanced in "bad faith."
How on earth did you come to such a confused conclusion?


Asian-Americans are disadvantaged in higher education entry by current race-based affirmative action, not advantaged by it. There are whole Asian-American groups and organizations opposed to current-form affirmative action. Many of them prefer educational test merit-based admissions, since as a group they score well.


A subset of Asian-Americans, mainly children of Asian immigrants, may be advantaged by socioeconomic affirmative action (look at the poverty & reduced lunch rates of the Asian students who are "overrepresented" in NYC specialized high-achieving high schools). Race-based affirmative action (the current dominant system) is largely an awkward proxy for socioeconomic affirmative action, but socioeconomic affirmative action is not the present case in most higher education admissions depts.
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Old 07-13-2018, 09:05 PM
 
2,448 posts, read 884,298 times
Reputation: 2421
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chint View Post
How on earth did you come to such a confused conclusion?


Asian-Americans are disadvantaged in higher education entry by current race-based affirmative action, not advantaged by it. There are whole Asian-American groups and organizations opposed to current-form affirmative action. Many of them prefer educational test merit-based admissions, since as a group they score well.


A subset of Asian-Americans, mainly children of Asian immigrants, may be advantaged by socioeconomic affirmative action (look at the poverty & reduced lunch rates of the Asian students who are "overrepresented" in NYC specialized high-achieving high schools). Race-based affirmative action (the current dominant system) is largely an awkward proxy for socioeconomic affirmative action, but socioeconomic affirmative action is not the present case in most higher education admissions depts.
Not confused about a thing. The implication of the poster to whom I was responding was that because most Asian-Americans support AA (she didn't provide data), we shouldn't attempt to dismantle AA policies that disproportionately penalize Asian-Americans.

I was pointing out that she would not extend this principle beyond Asian-Americans, who present such a problem to AA advocates, given how many structural barriers they've faced in this country and have largely excelled in spite of them. It ruins the whole story they've weaved about why other minority groups struggle.
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Old 07-21-2018, 07:01 AM
 
Location: North West Arkansas (zone 6b)
2,776 posts, read 3,222,520 times
Reputation: 3912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth View Post
UC Berkeley went through this decades ago. They're such a threat for the same reason the Jewish students were a threat, who would flood the admissions office at the Ivy League schools with stellar HS records and test scores, out-performing non-Jewish applicants from preppie backgrounds, who felt that "their" schools were being "taken over", and that "their" seats at Harvard and Yale, which they'd taken for granted, were been taken from them. Suddenly, limits were placed on the number of Jewish students to be accepted into each Freshman year.

In Berkeley's case, White parents raised a hue and cry back in the 80's/early 90's, because Asian-American students were dominating admissions with exceptional transcripts and test scores. But AFAIK, the university didn't cave to the pressure. The Asian students were gaining admission fair and square.
I visited berkely with my daughter a few years ago because I heard they had race blind applications (we are asian). From what I could see, the population was 90% asian. My daughter didn't apply.

My wife and I are American born and raised so our kids are more american than anything else. They don't try very hard in school, but still perform way above the average kids in the public school, so we put them in a charter school to get a little challenge in their daily work loads. The asian students to watch are the indian kids. They are children of IT workers who both hold advanced degrees so in addition to smart parents, they have the culture to push them harder as well as attend the cumon type training classes outside of school.
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Old 08-17-2018, 07:19 PM
 
74 posts, read 112,340 times
Reputation: 41
Interesting thread. Besides the rather obfuscatory corrections here and there on this thread, the OP did bring up a very important issue.
This forum appears to be filled with too many Uncle Toms, so I guess I will have to inject reality back into the discussion a bit.
https://www.mindingthecampus.org/201...ut_affirmativ/

The article argues against Groseclose too, but here is a quote that is pretty much undeniable:
“A century from now, historians will marvel at how crazy things are in academia today– how such smart people could so massively disregard the truth. They will look upon our era the way we look upon Salem witch-trials accusers and slave owners.”

Seriously, note that the amount of 'roll with evil' advisors here is at uncanny levels. OP, I guess you can't have reasonable discussions when you are dealing with Uncle Toms. Just saying.
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Old 08-17-2018, 09:36 PM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,330 posts, read 9,208,979 times
Reputation: 22694
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidt1 View Post
Aren't Asians a minority, part of the diversity pool? Why are they such a threat? Why so much hatred for them? Institutional racism, the kind Asian students suffer at schools now, is the worst. It's against everything this country stands for -- individuals achieving their dreams through hard work and perseverance.
They're a threat to all the white students, faculty members, alumni, boosters, etc.who are upset that their school is being "taken over" by Asians.

Are most elite asian high schoolers applying to largely the same elite universities? Probably.

But I think the point is simple. Asian Americans are beating white people at their own games (the admissions game) and people don't like it. While my community prefers to just kneel and protests, the Asian community is actually achieving success.
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