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Old 10-06-2018, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
What are you basing that on exactly? I received a $6000 award from my transfer University when I entered my OT program, because I had the highest GPA of the incoming class of OT students. It didn’t matter at all that my GPA was earned in community college.

Not everyone needs a car. A lot of people live in areas that have decent transportation systems. You could take a train or bus from here to community college or a four year easily. Many community college students are older and work as well so most have cars in any case. I think most 4 year college students who commute to school have cars as well. I think living in a dorm and borrowing money to do so cost much more than a car does.

I want to add, community college is a great way to get a do over for those students who did not do well in high school or well enough to get accepted into the college they want to go to. I would never in a million years have been excepted into the University I got into if I hadn’t gone to CC first. It was such a competitive program, that the community college advisor told me not to even bother applying when I asked about it.
OT is a graduate level program, no? So the scholarships, etc, start over again.

You're right that many people live where there is decent public transportation. However, I have always found it ironic that parents think nothing of buying a car for their kid, but think paying college tuition is over the top.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:26 PM
 
50,470 posts, read 36,126,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
OT is a graduate level program, no? So the scholarships, etc, start over again.

You're right that many people live where there is decent public transportation. However, I have always found it ironic that parents think nothing of buying a car for their kid, but think paying college tuition is over the top.
It was not a graduate program then, it was still Bachelors and I am grandfathered in. There was a Masters programs available too, but most practicing OTs were Bachelors level at that time (mid to late 90’s).

I don’t think the parents who are buying $30,000 cars for their kids are the ones not paying for college. I really don’t see anything wrong with a parent helping a child buy a car or outright buying it. It really is a necessity in today’s world even to get an after school job. I would not want my child riding a bike to and from a job these days. A lot of kids use those cars to earn money to help pay for college.
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Old 10-06-2018, 08:57 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
It was not a graduate program then, it was still Bachelors and I am grandfathered in. There was a Masters programs available too, but most practicing OTs were Bachelors level at that time (mid to late 90’s).

I don’t think the parents who are buying $30,000 cars for their kids are the ones not paying for college. I really don’t see anything wrong with a parent helping a child buy a car or outright buying it. It really is a necessity in today’s world even to get an after school job. I would not want my child riding a bike to and from a job these days. A lot of kids use those cars to earn money to help pay for college.
Well, OK but OT was a separate program. That's different than simply transferring colleges.

I don't see anything wrong with a parent buying a car for a kid either. I just see something very ironic with the same parents refusing to pay for college. Spending $30K on a car so a kid can have a $10/hr job ($20K/year) is not such a great plan. And I certainly never said anything about a kid riding a bike to work. What about taking PT as you suggested for school?
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Old 10-07-2018, 06:41 AM
 
50,470 posts, read 36,126,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Well, OK but OT was a separate program. That's different than simply transferring colleges.

I don't see anything wrong with a parent buying a car for a kid either. I just see something very ironic with the same parents refusing to pay for college. Spending $30K on a car so a kid can have a $10/hr job ($20K/year) is not such a great plan. And I certainly never said anything about a kid riding a bike to work. What about taking PT as you suggested for school?
For PT you can certainly still start the first two years at community college. It isnt any different. I also didn’t know what I wanted to do when I enter community college. There are tens of thousands of kids who are taking majors that I don’t even know if they like because they know they have to pick something. My best friend took a year and a half of computer science at a four year, before switching to pharmacy because she wasn’t that good at computer science and didn’t enjoy it. None of the classes for those two majors or similar at all. She would’ve saved a lot of money by going to CC until she figured out what she wanted to do.

I am not saying CC is the right choice for every kid, but it is a great choice for many and I stand by that. It is never been easier to transfer and to make sure that the classes you take are going to transfer. Again there are sites now that help you such as transferogy. If you just take classes randomly and then hope they transfer, that is a stupid way to choose classes and they shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t I’ll transfer. But if you plan it and simply read that for years requirements, as long as they have reciprocal agreement you really don’t have to worry about that.

Again I’m not saying it is for everyone, but the blanket dire warnings “don’t ever try to do this it’s a horrible decision” are truly not fair and IMO do a disservice to students who need to keep their college cost down. I don’t think anyone should make firm decisions about anything without researching them first. But your posts make it seem that they shouldn’t even bother doing that. Thus I feel compelled to counter with my own views and personal experience.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:14 AM
 
12,704 posts, read 8,929,449 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
For PT you can certainly still start the first two years at community college. It isnt any different. I also didn’t know what I wanted to do when I enter community college. There are tens of thousands of kids who are taking majors that I don’t even know if they like because they know they have to pick something. My best friend took a year and a half of computer science at a four year, before switching to pharmacy because she wasn’t that good at computer science and didn’t enjoy it. None of the classes for those two majors or similar at all. She would’ve saved a lot of money by going to CC until she figured out what she wanted to do.

I am not saying CC is the right choice for every kid, but it is a great choice for many and I stand by that. It is never been easier to transfer and to make sure that the classes you take are going to transfer. Again there are sites now that help you such as transferogy. If you just take classes randomly and then hope they transfer, that is a stupid way to choose classes and they shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t I’ll transfer. But if you plan it and simply read that for years requirements, as long as they have reciprocal agreement you really don’t have to worry about that.

Again I’m not saying it is for everyone, but the blanket dire warnings “don’t ever try to do this it’s a horrible decision” are truly not fair and IMO do a disservice to students who need to keep their college cost down. I don’t think anyone should make firm decisions about anything without researching them first. But your posts make it seem that they shouldn’t even bother doing that. Thus I feel compelled to counter with my own views and personal experience.
I'm one of those who is a bit less enthusiastic about CC than others. While I agree it can be a cost avoidance for some, my issue is too many assume that just because classes will transfer that they will count toward the final degree. It does help for some of the standard freshman courses that everyone has to take, but many professional programs, esp science and engineering, have pretty fixed four year curriculums with a set sequence of class offerings. If you miss a prerequisite, then you can't take the follow on, and wait until that course is offered next year. In those programs attending a CC can add a year or year and a half to a four year program. People need to look very carefully at their chosen major and make sure the classes will not just transfer, but count toward the degree.
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Old 10-07-2018, 07:48 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
For PT you can certainly still start the first two years at community college. It isnt any different. I also didn’t know what I wanted to do when I enter community college. There are tens of thousands of kids who are taking majors that I don’t even know if they like because they know they have to pick something. My best friend took a year and a half of computer science at a four year, before switching to pharmacy because she wasn’t that good at computer science and didn’t enjoy it. None of the classes for those two majors or similar at all. She would’ve saved a lot of money by going to CC until she figured out what she wanted to do.

I am not saying CC is the right choice for every kid, but it is a great choice for many and I stand by that. It is never been easier to transfer and to make sure that the classes you take are going to transfer. Again there are sites now that help you such as transferogy. If you just take classes randomly and then hope they transfer, that is a stupid way to choose classes and they shouldn’t be surprised if they don’t I’ll transfer. But if you plan it and simply read that for years requirements, as long as they have reciprocal agreement you really don’t have to worry about that.

Again I’m not saying it is for everyone, but the blanket dire warnings “don’t ever try to do this it’s a horrible decision” are truly not fair and IMO do a disservice to students who need to keep their college cost down. I don’t think anyone should make firm decisions about anything without researching them first. But your posts make it seem that they shouldn’t even bother doing that. Thus I feel compelled to counter with my own views and personal experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm one of those who is a bit less enthusiastic about CC than others. While I agree it can be a cost avoidance for some, my issue is too many assume that just because classes will transfer that they will count toward the final degree. It does help for some of the standard freshman courses that everyone has to take, but many professional programs, esp science and engineering, have pretty fixed four year curriculums with a set sequence of class offerings. If you miss a prerequisite, then you can't take the follow on, and wait until that course is offered next year. In those programs attending a CC can add a year or year and a half to a four year program. People need to look very carefully at their chosen major and make sure the classes will not just transfer, but count toward the degree.
Like med school, there is no prescribed undergrad major for PT school, but there are pre-reqs. Many of these pre-reqs have pre-reqs themselves. I never said anything remotely close to the bolded blue, which you would know if you actually read my posts for content. My opinions about CC are quite similar to tnff's, and this is what I've said. In point of fact, the standard freshman courses are actually few in number, usually two courses of freshman comp, perhaps a PE course or two and a few liberal arts and humanities and perhaps the first course of a science/math sequence. They wouldn't take more than a semester, two at the most. Spend two years at a CC and you'll spend 5 years undergrad, most likely. This is especially true if you are transferring to a small college where not every course is offered every semester. Some of these small colleges don't even offer every course every year, and if one of those is a pre-req for something you need, you are SOL.

ETA: Some 4 year colleges also have required courses of their own that are not offered at a CC that must be taken to fulfill graduation requirements.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 10-07-2018 at 08:26 AM..
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Old 10-07-2018, 08:57 AM
 
50,470 posts, read 36,126,975 times
Reputation: 76349
Quote:
Originally Posted by tnff View Post
I'm one of those who is a bit less enthusiastic about CC than others. While I agree it can be a cost avoidance for some, my issue is too many assume that just because classes will transfer that they will count toward the final degree. It does help for some of the standard freshman courses that everyone has to take, but many professional programs, esp science and engineering, have pretty fixed four year curriculums with a set sequence of class offerings. If you miss a prerequisite, then you can't take the follow on, and wait until that course is offered next year. In those programs attending a CC can add a year or year and a half to a four year program. People need to look very carefully at their chosen major and make sure the classes will not just transfer, but count toward the degree.
Any student who simply assumes anything is an idiot. It’s not hard to find out the universities requirements. I was able to do this very easily even 20 years ago by simply looking through the college catalog and then double checking with the career advisor to make sure. It is not difficult at all. It is even easier now because they have sites like transferology.com where you can put in the program that you’re wanting to transfer to and the college you want to transfer to and it’ll tell you ahead of time if the courses will transfer.

If it doesn’t work for someone’s program or goals that’s fine, but to say they shouldn’t even look into it I think it’s a disservice. I don’t understand why anyone would simply make assumptions about something they’re investing tens of thousands of dollars and years of their lives in. People spend hours researching the best PC, the best phone plan, or the best car, I would think their college education deserves at least that much effort.

I actually met the prerequisites for transfer four different universities, which all had slightly different requirements (one required a semester of chem, another physics, another statistics) to make sure that I had a good chance of getting accepted into an OT program because there were so many more applicants than slots. It wasn’t easy, and I had to hire a tutor for a summer statistics course, but choosing to enter CC was honestly the best decision of my adult life.
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Old 10-07-2018, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,475,124 times
Reputation: 35920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocnjgirl View Post
Any student who simply assumes anything is an idiot. It’s not hard to find out the universities requirements. I was able to do this very easily even 20 years ago by simply looking through the college catalog and then double checking with the career advisor to make sure. It is not difficult at all. It is even easier now because they have sites like transferology.com where you can put in the program that you’re wanting to transfer to and the college you want to transfer to and it’ll tell you ahead of time if the courses will transfer.

If it doesn’t work for someone’s program or goals that’s fine, but to say they shouldn’t even look into it I think it’s a disservice. I don’t understand why anyone would simply make assumptions about something they’re investing tens of thousands of dollars and years of their lives in. People spend hours researching the best PC, the best phone plan, or the best car, I would think their college education deserves at least that much effort.

I actually met the prerequisites for transfer four different universities, which all had slightly different requirements (one required a semester of chem, another physics, another statistics) to make sure that I had a good chance of getting accepted into an OT program because there were so many more applicants than slots. It wasn’t easy, and I had to hire a tutor for a summer statistics course, but choosing to enter CC was honestly the best decision of my adult life.
First let me say I'm glad it worked so well for you and you're happy with your education. You've said yourself, OT has changed. So has PT; the programs have all gone to the DPT. Here are the pre-reqs for the U of CO PT program, the one my daughter attended. Note there are only 31 credits, approx 1 academic year, of lower-division courses. Note also that some of these upper division courses may have some lower-division pre-reqs as well that may not be offered at a CC.
DPT Prerequisites | School of Medicine | University of Colorado Denver

I tried to look at "transferology" but I found I had to make an account and the last thing I need is more of those, particularly ones I'm not going to use. I wouldn't trust it without some input from the advisers at the intended transfer institution.

NO ONE has said not to look into CC. Not one person on here. At least one person told us Suze Ormond recommends doing two full years at a CC and then transferring to a state university. If Suze really made that blanket statement, SHE'S WRONG! It won't work for everyone, for every major. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. No one in their right mind would go to a 4 year school.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:26 AM
 
50,470 posts, read 36,126,975 times
Reputation: 76349
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
First let me say I'm glad it worked so well for you and you're happy with your education. You've said yourself, OT has changed. So has PT; the programs have all gone to the DPT. Here are the pre-reqs for the U of CO PT program, the one my daughter attended. Note there are only 31 credits, approx 1 academic year, of lower-division courses. Note also that some of these upper division courses may have some lower-division pre-reqs as well that may not be offered at a CC.
DPT Prerequisites | School of Medicine | University of Colorado Denver

I tried to look at "transferology" but I found I had to make an account and the last thing I need is more of those, particularly ones I'm not going to use. I wouldn't trust it without some input from the advisers at the intended transfer institution.

NO ONE has said not to look into CC. Not one person on here. At least one person told us Suze Ormond recommends doing two full years at a CC and then transferring to a state university. If Suze really made that blanket statement, SHE'S WRONG! It won't work for everyone, for every major. If it were that easy, everyone would be doing it. No one in their right mind would go to a 4 year school.


Assumptions seem to be the order of the day here. Since when has ANY advisor said "Everyone should do _____". It takes 2 seconds to see what she actually DOES say about CC: https://www.suzeorman.com/blog/how-t...stepping-stone


She says "Can" and "May" and details the pitfalls such as it may take extra time and how to make sure you do it right.


Your posts just come off as being against most students even looking into it, and again I don't get that.
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Old 10-07-2018, 11:29 AM
 
4,139 posts, read 11,463,767 times
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Originally Posted by dysgenic View Post
I think a many people that have posted on this thread are missing the point.

Most student loan debt is federally guaranteed. That means when the loans go bad, the US government (read: the U.S. taxpayer) cuts a check to the bank to pay off the loan.

So the system works like this:

1. The banks making the loans make money on every loan, no matter what- so they will lend as much money as they can.
2. This causes the price to spiral out of control.
3. This causes the default ratio to spiral of control.

See the problem?
Those types of loans are now:

1. Much harder to come by.
2. Are MUCH lower amounts than they used to offer.

Most families now find other loan sources. Parent Plus loans are popular, however, parent plus loans have a 5 or 6% origination fee, plus the loan starts accruing interest from the time you take it, even though you don't have to start paying until the child has finished the degree. You end up paying far more for your (or your child's) college education.
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