U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old Yesterday, 05:44 PM
 
6,874 posts, read 10,048,721 times
Reputation: 5224

Advertisements

Comparing the 2000 and 2014 lists of colleges where students owe the most total debt, one can see an obvious difference. The 2014 list includes many more for-profit colleges.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...anDefaults.png

For-profit colleges and private and public 2-year colleges account for the increase in student loan defaults, but the average amount defaulted on at community colleges is around $5,000.

https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/researc...unity-colleges

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...anDefaults.png

University of Phoenix, Devry, Kaplan, Strayer, Ashford, and Grand Canyon University had disturbingly high 5-year student loan default rates in 2014. They were also among the colleges responsible for the most accumulated debt.

https://www.brookings.edu/wp-content...Fall15BPEA.pdf

The majority of students who default between 3 to 5 years attended for-profit colleges.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/derekne.../#7cb180b630e5

For-profit colleges have worse labor market outcomes. Additionally, those who earn associate's degrees at non-profit and public colleges see large, statistically significant benefits but for-profit students do not.

https://www.nber.org/papers/w25042.pdf
https://www.nber.org/papers/w18201

For-profit colleges have been disastrous for African American students. The student bodies at for-profit colleges are disproportionately African American, and AA students have more debt than AA students at non-profit colleges.

https://www.responsiblelending.org/s...mary-April.pdf

This article compares the 12-year (and 12-year projected) default rates among students who started school in 1996 vs. 2004. The default rates for for-profit colleges was 46.5% among those starting school in 2004. The next highest sector, private non-profits, had a default rate of 13.2%. AA students had the highest student loan default rates at 37.5%.

In the 2015-2016 school year, half of black doctoral students were attending for-profit colleges. Overall, for-profit colleges only had 17% of doctoral students. 80% borrowed an average of $109,000 for their for-profit doctoral degrees.

https://hechingerreport.org/opinion-...use-for-alarm/
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM
 
6,874 posts, read 10,048,721 times
Reputation: 5224
This article nicely summarizes the stats with graphics.

https://capseecenter.org/research/by...e-infographic/

Community colleges often get compared to for-profit colleges because of the student loan defaults. There are multiple problems with this comparison. The amount CC students are defaulting on is far lower, fewer CC students borrow in the first place because CCs are cheap, and the 12-year default rates of CCs and for-profit colleges aren't even close.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:13 PM
 
7,829 posts, read 8,649,209 times
Reputation: 6069
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
This article nicely summarizes the stats with graphics.

https://capseecenter.org/research/by...e-infographic/

Community colleges often get compared to for-profit colleges because of the student loan defaults. There are multiple problems with this comparison. The amount CC students are defaulting on is far lower, fewer CC students borrow in the first place because CCs are cheap, and the 12-year default rates of CCs and for-profit colleges aren't even close.
Excellent posts. I can't find it but The NYT ran a great piece about all this a year or so ago. The notion of college for all free or not sort of falls apart upon cross examination with what you've posted.........students who are not well prepared simply don't finish and many that do struggle to find decent work.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
 
269 posts, read 40,518 times
Reputation: 436
The entire higher education system can be blamed. It can easily be argued that almost every higher ed institution out there is operating like a "for-profit" these days. Tuition, fees, expenses, books, etc. are astronomical. Students are getting saturated in loan debt regardless of where they go. Higher ed "institutions" have no accountability in terms of job placement rates or quality of degrees offered. Tons of useless degrees out there that have no marketability in the real world yet are commanding $50K+ to acquire.
Students are left holding the bag and the colleges and universities are laughing all the way to the bank. The whole system is broken.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 09:00 PM
 
6,874 posts, read 10,048,721 times
Reputation: 5224
"Marketable" is subjective because people's idea of what's marketable often doesn't align with reality. There are only a handful of common majors that have most of its graduates in jobs that don't require a degree. Many of the unmarketable majors people often mention have relatively few graduates. For example, gender studies, women's studies, Chicano studies, African diaspora studies, and similar programs are some of the least popular majors in the U.S.

Most of the people with very high levels of debt attended graduate school. The average debt for the 2001-2002 school year was $23,000. The average debt for the 2016-2017 school year was $28,500. I think people should focus more on the typical debt among graduates of various types of colleges rather than anecdotal stories or stats that include for-profit colleges and graduate programs since those are outliers. People should also pay more attention to debt than sticker price. Most college graduates do not have $50k in debt.

https://www.studentdebtrelief.us/stu...bt-statistics/

As I sort of hit on above, for-profit colleges market themselves as places to earn degrees that will lead to jobs. English, history, and other humanities majors are not common at for-profit colleges. At the 2-year for-profits, they're offering trades and healthcare vocations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDS_ View Post
Excellent posts. I can't find it but The NYT ran a great piece about all this a year or so ago. The notion of college for all free or not sort of falls apart upon cross examination with what you've posted.........students who are not well prepared simply don't finish and many that do struggle to find decent work.
I think it shows that the higher education industry has focused on the wrong things. Before there were thousands of online programs offered by nonprofits, for-profits defended themselves with the argument that they were making education more accessible to adult learners and disadvantaged students traditional colleges ignored. They also targeted people who dropped out of community colleges because they either couldn't get through or didn't want to take required remedial courses. For-profits, basically, accept anyone, put them directly into college-level courses without regard to their level of preparation, take their money, and hope they don't sink. They call it giving everyone a chance; I call it setting up people for an expensive failure.

There are people who aren't smart enough or don't have the right strengths to succeed in college. Then, there are those who aren't prepared. The focus should be on improving K-12 and/or children's home situations so that they are better prepared for post-secondary programs.

Last edited by L210; Yesterday at 09:28 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Today, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The analog world
16,908 posts, read 9,487,456 times
Reputation: 22546
Quote:
Originally Posted by L210 View Post
"Marketable" is subjective because people's idea of what's marketable often doesn't align with reality. There are only a handful of common majors that have most of its graduates in jobs that don't require a degree. Many of the unmarketable majors people often mention have relatively few graduates. For example, gender studies, women's studies, Chicano studies, African diaspora studies, and similar programs are some of the least popular majors in the U.S.

Most of the people with very high levels of debt attended graduate school. The average debt for the 2001-2002 school year was $23,000. The average debt for the 2016-2017 school year was $28,500. I think people should focus more on the typical debt among graduates of various types of colleges rather than anecdotal stories or stats that include for-profit colleges and graduate programs since those are outliers. People should also pay more attention to debt than sticker price. Most college graduates do not have $50k in debt.

https://www.studentdebtrelief.us/stu...bt-statistics/

As I sort of hit on above, for-profit colleges market themselves as places to earn degrees that will lead to jobs. English, history, and other humanities majors are not common at for-profit colleges. At the 2-year for-profits, they're offering trades and healthcare vocations.



I think it shows that the higher education industry has focused on the wrong things. Before there were thousands of online programs offered by nonprofits, for-profits defended themselves with the argument that they were making education more accessible to adult learners and disadvantaged students traditional colleges ignored. They also targeted people who dropped out of community colleges because they either couldn't get through or didn't want to take required remedial courses. For-profits, basically, accept anyone, put them directly into college-level courses without regard to their level of preparation, take their money, and hope they don't sink. They call it giving everyone a chance; I call it setting up people for an expensive failure.

There are people who aren't smart enough or don't have the right strengths to succeed in college. Then, there are those who aren't prepared. The focus should be on improving K-12 and/or children's home situations so that they are better prepared for post-secondary programs.
And on top of that, for-profit colleges like University of Phoenix also obtain financial aid on their students’ behalf. That’s not the case for traditional institutions, where students are responsible for the process.

Last edited by randomparent; Today at 11:18 AM.. Reason: Typo
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Education > Colleges and Universities
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top