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An undergraduate degree does not really prepare you well for entering the workforce,companies still have to train you ,be it IT or Accounting or engineering.
4 years is a long time to acquire basic skills, some of it should have been done in high school.
Community college,the calibre of teachers and students often are sub par,but it does you some money by staying at home
It's not the college's job to prepare you for the workforce. The purpose of college is to provide the education -- the fundamental background -- reasoning ability, and the skills to be a self motivated learner so that you can be trained in multiple jobs over a career and adapt to those unknown changes that come along in life.
If you think college is about training you for the first job post college, you will be sorely disappointed. If you think it's about preparing you for adapting to the unknown, then you'll have a much better time of it.
I don't know if my kids will listen to me but after reading and seeing how expensive all the costs are I would highly encourage them to live at home for the first two years and attend a local college or junior college. I have one that is a senior in high school, has offers from several schools. First- in-state is a no brainer. I've at least convinced my oldest of that. Second, the "other" costs are brutal-- between living on campus, the meal plan, rec activities, man...... live at home and then transfer if you want after the first two years. Just thinking and trying to avoid debt.
I lived at home 3 of the 4 years of college. I enjoyed that more than living on a campus. I know everyone's situation is different though.
Thoughts?
I'm very pro-college, but I am disgusted at how expensive higher education has become. I think we are to a point where we need to do more than simply arrange for student loans and scholarships so "kids can afford college". We need to undertake structure reforms to affirmatively reduce the cost of college. We can't do much about private schools and institutions, but we can force public universities and colleges in our states to stop tuition increases that continually exceed changes in the cost of living. I would consider a program denying such institutions the right to participate in federal student loan programs and possibly grants for research done at their institutions. For effort needs to be made by states to force colleges to live within their means and sometimes cut expenditures.
I paid for both my children to go to college and would do it again. However, my situation was quite unique. Only a small percentage of people have the means that my wife and I do.
Frankly, the middle class is being squeezed out of college unless their children are willing to sign up for large student loans. It has much to do with the loss of upward mobility in our society that has taken place in the last thirty years.
I'm very pro-college, but I am disgusted at how expensive higher education has become. I think we are to a point where we need to do more than simply arrange for student loans and scholarships so "kids can afford college". We need to undertake structure reforms to affirmatively reduce the cost of college. We can't do much about private schools and institutions, but we can force public universities and colleges in our states to stop tuition increases that continually exceed changes in the cost of living. I would consider a program denying such institutions the right to participate in federal student loan programs and possibly grants for research done at their institutions. For effort needs to be made by states to force colleges to live within their means and sometimes cut expenditures.
I paid for both my children to go to college and would do it again. However, my situation was quite unique. Only a small percentage of people have the means that my wife and I do.
Frankly, the middle class is being squeezed out of college unless their children are willing to sign up for large student loans. It has much to do with the loss of upward mobility in our society that has taken place in the last thirty years.
How do you force them to do that? The problem is that over the past 20-30 years states have significantly decreased the amount of funding per student. When states fully funded the basics, the price a student had to pay was low. Essentially states were funding the equivalent of "free tuition" for the most part and students could easily work for the rest of the cost. Today states have cut that funding. It's somewhat ironic when those who took advantage of state funding back then now want to cut state funding today.
Depending on what statistics you read, around half of all college students never graduate. For many, I would think that would be the worst of both worlds - no degree AND a student loan burden.
I don't know about "half". I do know that choosing either the wrong college or the wrong major can lead to bad grades, depression, and failure, which precede dropping out.
Personally, I never worried about my children dropping out. In my family and in my husband's, college is what comes after high school. The only questions are where to go and what major to select.
Most students know by 10th or 11th grade, whether they excel at science, math, history, writing, social sciences or art. That isn't rocket science.
What wastes the most money is when parents attempt to force a square peg into a round hole. Accept your child's talent. With a college degree and no mental health issues, they will be self-supporting.
Whether or not they are millionaires is really not your business.
A bachelor's degree is entry-level into the middle class and beyond. You will not change that. It's the new HS diploma.
It's not the college's job to prepare you for the workforce. The purpose of college is to provide the education -- the fundamental background -- reasoning ability, and the skills to be a self motivated learner so that you can be trained in multiple jobs over a career and adapt to those unknown changes that come along in life.
If you think college is about training you for the first job post college, you will be sorely disappointed. If you think it's about preparing you for adapting to the unknown, then you'll have a much better time of it.
That's a pretty low bar as a return for all that money spent. Can't you be a self motivated learner that can be trained for multiple jobs without going to college? Doesn't every person who goes to work out of high school need to motivated to learn and willing to be trained? Doesn't everyone need to be able to adapt to life's changes regardless of their education level? How does college differ from high school or on the job training? How does living at college differ from moving out of your parents house and getting your own apartment? How are college friendships any different than work friendships? The most important lesson learned in college is to stick it out and get the diploma, hopefully as cheaply and painlessly as possible. But anyone who goes to work must learn the same lesson. The most important thing at work is to find a job where your talents and skills allow you to feel like you are actually working for yourself and enjoying what you do. As long as you have that and are making a decent salary, promotions, titles and more money won't make you any happier.
That's a pretty low bar as a return for all that money spent. Can't you be a self motivated learner that can be trained for multiple jobs without going to college? Doesn't every person who goes to work out of high school need to motivated to learn and willing to be trained? Doesn't everyone need to be able to adapt to life's changes regardless of their education level? How does college differ from high school or on the job training? How does living at college differ from moving out of your parents house and getting your own apartment? How are college friendships any different than work friendships? The most important lesson learned in college is to stick it out and get the diploma, hopefully as cheaply and painlessly as possible. But anyone who goes to work must learn the same lesson. The most important thing at work is to find a job where your talents and skills allow you to feel like you are actually working for yourself and enjoying what you do. As long as you have that and are making a decent salary, promotions, titles and more money won't make you any happier.
Try life in the 21st Century WITHOUT College. Skip the car. The senior trip. Focus on what you or your child NEED. They need a FOUR YEAR DEGREE. It doesn't need to be from Harvard.
STAY AWAY from for-profit colleges. The University of Pheonix? Only 15% graduate.
Do you think trade school is the magic elixir? It isn't. Few 18-year-olds can commit to a job for life.
I just got back from my hairdresser. She works at two jobs. Before she went into hairdressing, she was a Medical Assistant.
Two trade schools. She owes $60,000 and has no degree. No benefits. No pension.
She wishes she went to college, but she is 38, three kids, and deep in debt with no degree. Her SISTER has a BA in psychology and works for the County. Child and Family Services - they take anyone with a BA - it could be in Theatre Arts or Egyptian Archeology.
Going away to college is different from getting one's own apartment because it provides a smooth transition from home to the Real World.
First apartments rarely work out. Someone decides to move home, and the apartment-mates can't make the rent.
That's a pretty low bar as a return for all that money spent. ...r.
Low bar? Uh, no, it's actually a pretty high bar. So high that many don't even begin the journey. Many more drop out before finishing or take 5, 6 years or longer. And many who went because they wanted that "piece of paper" never understand the most important part.
I'm not saying the degree is not helpful, just that you may as well get one as cheaply and painlessly as possible because all you are getting is that piece of paper. My experience is that college is about college, nothing more. When you walk out the door you are on your own. They really could care less what happens to you other than soliciting donations. I graduated from a state college 20 minutes from my home. My son graduated from city college an hour from our home. I majored in political science, did a year of law school, which had been my plan since age 11, based on watching Perry Mason episodes on TV, and decided I didn't want to be a lawyer. I got a job authorizing credit cards, and held a variety of jobs for 20 years until I got into computers, for which I had no degree, but a deep interest in. That became my job until I retired. My son graduated with an English degree and taught high school English for a year and decided he didn't want to be a teacher. He joined the Parks department, then became a fireman, was retired with a shoulder disability and now has a pension plus owns his own home improvement business. Am I glad I didn't spend a fortune for him to get a degree he never used, or to get a degree I never used? You can be sure of it. My son never returned home after he got his own apartment at 19, which he paid for. He paid his college and living expenses with student loans and work. The same with me. We both were self supporting and left home at the start of our junior year to live in our own apartment, no roommates. Maybe kids and parents are a different breed these days. We couldn't wait to be on our own, have our own place, support ourselves and be independent. It's still quite available but few are taking that path.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sheena12
Try life in the 21st Century WITHOUT College. Skip the car. The senior trip. Focus on what you or your child NEED. They need a FOUR YEAR DEGREE. It doesn't need to be from Harvard.
STAY AWAY from for-profit colleges. The University of Pheonix? Only 15% graduate.
Do you think trade school is the magic elixir? It isn't. Few 18-year-olds can commit to a job for life.
I just got back from my hairdresser. She works at two jobs. Before she went into hairdressing, she was a Medical Assistant.
Two trade schools. She owes $60,000 and has no degree. No benefits. No pension.
She wishes she went to college, but she is 38, three kids, and deep in debt with no degree. Her SISTER has a BA in psychology and works for the County. Child and Family Services - they take anyone with a BA - it could be in Theatre Arts or Egyptian Archeology.
Going away to college is different from getting one's own apartment because it provides a smooth transition from home to the Real World.
First apartments rarely work out. Someone decides to move home, and the apartment-mates can't make the rent.
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
34,690 posts, read 57,994,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dingo Gibby
... paid her a fraction of college room and board because my parents lived too far from my school for commuting to be practical ...
Going to a local CC or to a public college/university and living at home these days is going to save probably $12k or more in room, board, and travel costs annually. It also enables students to have part-time jobs all through the school year if they want.
Moreover, most public CCs have articulation agreements with numerous public and private four year institutions that guarantee that the courses students take at the CC automatically count towards their degree at the four year school just as if they took those courses at the four year school. This can save a semester's worth of tuition when transferring.
Another way to save money is for students to take more than the minimum 12 credit hours required for full time status every semester. ... Taking 17 or 18 credits most semesters can enable a student to graduate a semester early.
Probably the biggest money saving tip is for students to take college seriously:.... maybe he or she should spend a year or two working at Mickey D's or Walmart or join the military while he or she figures out his/her life.
Good points and suggestions.
I do wonder why students do the expensive dorm / college food thing, tho some U's require Freshman. I would find another school, as the LAST people I wanted to be with was 'same age peers' after HS. Thank goodness LIFE is more varied than hanging with clones. Attend a HS reunion at 40 - 50 yrs out and see how many are still stuck in HS
Most "Pay-Your-Own-Way" students I know and teach take more than 12 CR Hrs . term. Often 18 - 21 Cr Hrs, but then most of them are also working, many FT and with families (adult students). Really tough for them, but they are not at College for 'The Experience' Many CC profs are very excellent (experienced in their fields ACTUALLY working for a living!!!, also CC students (often adults) bring a lot of experience to the classroom and projects)
Taking a 'gap yr' or 2 is certainly wise for most students, especially f they can get a REAL job in the field they plan to pursue. It would have been nice for my kids who were already 3 yrs ahead of their peers due to skipping HS. But... they took their gap yrs later (between jobs), always a great idea and can really help your interview / pay offer $$$ / and vacation negotiations, if you do something valuable and unique. My kids have each secured jobs with unlimited vacation, probably because we traveled nearly FT when they were school age and they have the bug. I expect they will each transition international jobs when able.
I do not get why college must be 'expensive', as there are other choices (for school and living arrangements). I do feel colleges have got by with raising rates because mommy (who is paying) is much less likely to realize or complain about costs than Jr is if he / she were footing the entire bill and making it an expense relevant to their future employment or contribution to society, and ability to pay back. During the 1960's student protests I can't imagine colleges would survived if they raised tuitions astronomically. Seems 10% / yr has been a normal / expected rate increase. That is not sustainable, but I still see plenty of affordable (and free) college options today. Students can room up and get by really inexpensive. My kids had roomies who worked in food distribution or places where they brought a lot of free food home. We did that when first married taking catering gigs on weekends and stocking up for the next week on left-overs.
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Many CC profs are very excellent (experienced in their fields ACTUALLY working for a living!!!, also CC students (often adults) bring a lot of experience to the classroom and projects)
