College education, or not? (PhD, best, career, pay)

[Momma_bear]

Travelmate-

Some people can do what you did and others need to be shown the way. For people who do not have a clear idea of where to lead themselves a college eduction offers an opportunity to learn how to use their brain. There is no one way of achieving success in this world. I am glad to hear of your success!

[K-Luv]

Originally Posted by KarlaT2

I don't think it ever hurts to get a degree even if you end up working in another field. These days you never know when you may have to change jobs, and a degree of any type seems to open up some doors.

They (who is they? I dunno) say that the average adult is now going to change careers at least seven times over the course of their life. Up until the end of the eighties people who changed jobs a lot where looked down upon and considered not able to commit. Now, are considered complacent and people who change jobs are viewed as people who are constantly looking for something better.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by travelmate38

Again, the pupose of the original post was not to argue that college is a bad idea. It is simply to show there are alternatives. It is also to show that for young people, thinking of college, need to really research what field they choose.

I agree, for many a college education is the way to go. An AA degree is the new high school diploma. A 4-year degree is the new minimum requirement for most professional jobs. I am ware of this. The stats above are not made up as some here have implied.

The most glaring one to me, is that most college students said they use little to none of the college education for their first post college job. If you really think about it, 90% of what you learn in college is never applied in your day to day career. It is not until you get to post graduate school and take specific classes related to a specific field that you really learn stuff you will use. This last statement, is my opinion, but one I have found to be true in most cases.

First of all, a lot of college graduates have "the arrogance of youth" attitude. This fades out over time. So lots of them do think the college degree was a waste, but they change their minds as time goes on. My own DD was very bitter about her college when she first graduated; a year later, she had a much different opinion. I don't know if a high school student can actually do the research required to pick the "perfect" degree for them. There is so much they don't even know!

Originally Posted by travelmate38

I would assume you do not mean this in the literal sense? The human mind does just well thinking on its own. A smart mind will always find a way to excel and thrive, if the host is self-motivated. When I went to college, although I never enrolled in degree program, I was able to clap the maximum amount of allowable credits. Over thirty-six to be exact. And I would have been able to clep myself to master's degree in many programs if they would have allowed for it. I did it for a few reasons. To prove a point to myself and the "system" that I did not need to be institutionalized to succeed in their preconditioned arrangement. And that I could accomplish anything I put my mind to without becoming one of the "sheeple."

What have I accomplished so far? At age 40, my net worth is over 1.2 million with half that being in liquid assets. Raised a very responsible teenage daughter, stayed married to the same lady for 20 years and so on. All without a college education or one ounce of outside help. I moved out on my own and began working at age 15! Parents are dirt poor and never was given any aid, a penny, or advice from anyone, or any institution. As the great Frank Sinatra would say, I did it my way from start to finish and have only just begun.

I think you have good reason to be proud of your accomplishments. However, I interpreted the post about learnng how to think to mean learning about critical thinking, e.g. how to evaluate information you read, how to set up experiments and evaluate their results, and so on. These are not intuitive skills.

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by travelmate38

Again, the pupose of the original post was not to argue that college is a bad idea. It is simply to show there are alternatives. It is also to show that for young people, thinking of college, need to really research what field they choose.

I agree, for many a college education is the way to go. An AA degree is the new high school diploma. A 4-year degree is the new minimum requirement for most professional jobs. I am ware of this. The stats above are not made up as some here have implied.

The most glaring one to me, is that most college students said they use little to none of the college education for their first post college job. If you really think about it, 90% of what you learn in college is never applied in your day to day career. It is not until you get to post graduate school and take specific classes related to a specific field that you really learn stuff you will use. This last statement, is my opinion, but one I have found to be true in most cases.

Seriously, where the hell are you getting your stats from?

[travelmate38]

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin

Seriously, where the hell are you getting your stats from?

The 90%? Obviously that is a metophoric statement, not to be taken literally. The other stats from the original post, are from the dozens of daily articles and text on education I read daily, amounting to thousands upon thousands in my lifetime. I'm the guy who studies and reads just about everything in print and on the web, but never applied to a formal college setting. I read an average of five books a week and have for many years. Nothing fictional either. All science, psychology, world affairs, economic, politics and so on. Just to refresh your memory. I have went to many universities about the country in my lifetime and clepped enough classes to have a master's degree if they would allow them to be combined, but do not want one, because I don't need one.

Again, nothing against those who wish to go the college route, I was merely pointing out that we do not all need it.Also pointing out that most of what you learn in school, is never really applied in the real world, especially when it comes to the general education degrees. I'll go toe to toe with any college grad. Especially today's youth. You know the ones who plagiarize and cheat their way through school and then come out the other end with their nose stuck right up in the air. It's so fun to engage upon telling them I have no degree. They first become arrogant as they usually start with a subject such as politics, or money. Both of which they soon realize they know little about.

And would you believe I just landed myself a HS counselor job without a degree, even though it required one? I'm taking the position as my "semi-retirement and hobby job and for the insurance." I even told them this during the interview and they still loved me! Oh wow their gonna love me when I'm done.

[coosjoaquin]

Originally Posted by travelmate38

The 90%? Obviously that is a metophoric statement, not to be taken literally. The other stats from the original post, are from the dozens of daily articles and text on education I read daily, amounting to thousands upon thousands in my lifetime. I'm the guy who studies and reads just about everything in print and on the web, but never applied to a formal college setting. I read an average of five books a week and have for many years. Nothing fictional either. All science, psychology, world affairs, economic, politics and so on. Just to refresh your memory. I have went to many universities about the country in my lifetime and clepped enough classes to have a master's degree if they would allow them to be combined, but do not want one, because I don't need one.

Again, nothing against those who wish to go the college route, I was merely pointing out that we do not all need it.Also pointing out that most of what you learn in school, is never really applied in the real world, especially when it comes to the general education degrees. I'll go toe to toe with any college grad. Especially today's youth. You know the ones who plagiarize and cheat their way through school and then come out the other end with their nose stuck right up in the air. It's so fun to engage upon telling them I have no degree. They first become arrogant as they usually start with a subject such as politics, or money. Both of which they soon realize they know little about.

And would you believe I just landed myself a HS counselor job without a degree, even though it required one? I'm taking the position as my "semi-retirement and hobby job and for the insurance." I even told them this during the interview and they still loved me! Oh wow their gonna love me when I'm done.

Um ok good for you but can you give us a link to any of those stats?

[SmerkyGrl]

Originally Posted by coosjoaquin

Um ok good for you but can you give us a link to any of those stats?

You wouldn't be the first time asking that. He will tell you he is too wise to offer you any stats and that you are too young and stupid to not accept his word as fact ...and then spout off more details about how awesome and successful he is (which of course, through the internet, can never actually be affirmed).

[rdlr]

I know a single mom of 3 (husband left her) who scrimped and saved to take the real estate course, and was a high school grad. She was the most poorly dressed in the office of impecably dressed real estate agents. She worked hard, and within 1 year was making more than she ever made in her whole life....$20,000. Today, 10 years later, she owns investment properties, owns her own real estate company, and employs 20+ agents. She's better dressed now, but she's the same genuine, hard working girl, and is still doing well, even in this real estate market. Her specialty is high-end executive homes, and working with relocation companies. This fall she will begin teaching classes to other Realtors, on how to become successful in the business.

[hnsq]

Originally Posted by travelmate38

I would assume you do not mean this in the literal sense? The human mind does just well thinking on its own. A smart mind will always find a way to excel and thrive, if the host is self-motivated. When I went to college, although I never enrolled in degree program, I was able to clap the maximum amount of allowable credits. Over thirty-six to be exact. And I would have been able to clep myself to master's degree in many programs if they would have allowed for it. I did it for a few reasons. To prove a point to myself and the "system" that I did not need to be institutionalized to succeed in their preconditioned arrangement. And that I could accomplish anything I put my mind to without becoming one of the "sheeple."

What have I accomplished so far? At age 40, my net worth is over 1.2 million with half that being in liquid assets. Raised a very responsible teenage daughter, stayed married to the same lady for 20 years and so on. All without a college education or one ounce of outside help. I moved out on my own and began working at age 15! Parents are dirt poor and never was given any aid, a penny, or advice from anyone, or any institution. As the great Frank Sinatra would say, I did it my way from start to finish and have only just begun.

First of all, his stats do seem fairly accurate. Even still - I would say a 4 year college degree today is about equivelant to what a high school diploma was 50 years ago.

Your life is very impressive travelmate. 1.2 million in net worth is definately good at 40 given it takes 1.5-2 million per person to retire comfortably from a typical white-collar job maintaining the same quality of life. And 36 credits? A typical program in a liberal arts college is well over 100 credits (I took 128 to be exact).

I agree personal responsibility is huge. No college program will teach a person how to get rich. It is, however, highly unlikely that a person will start a successful business, for example, without some sort of education. College is a means and a tool for an individual to use to better themselves.

[TouchOfWhimsy]

I guess the question to ask yourself in deciding whether to pursue a college education is "What does it mean for me personally to be successful?"

If that answer is "to make a lot of money" or "to be in a professional career," then you might be better off going to college. If the answer is "to put in my 8 hours per day so that I can get off of work and play frisbee with my kids/dog," then you might be better off looking into trade school. If it's "staying home with my kids and cooking delicious dinners for my husband and family," then perhaps you don't need to go to college (though a backup plan would be a good idea, just in case things don't work out). If it's to work in your family's business, and that business is dentistry, you need to go to college and dental school. If the family business is installing neon signs, though, then you can just start after high school. In some cases, the 4 years and the $100,000 or so dollars spent on college could be a waste.

It's interesting that what works for some poeple does not work for others, but everyone wants everyone else to see it their way.