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Too many on this thread have turned a discussion on empirics & choice to a somewhat pathetic and circular debate over intrinsic value. For them, it is battle over religions. And as we know too well about religious zealots, everything under the sun becomes a challenge to their limited and often wrong-headed view of the world.
Seriously? I mean seriously? I seem to recall you being involved in the discussion. Incidentally, you more than anyone have acted the most zealously. You continue to do just that, despite pretending to be "above it all". Rather amusing.
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
1) What can an English major do? Literally anything that involves thinking, the expression of ideas and the depictions of hope and inspiration.
Anything that involves thinking? Like Mathematics? Oh wait...no. May, want to rethink this. The depictions of hope and inspiration? err....
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
2) What is possible with an English degree? Anything under the sun. Most, if not all, industries have a success story who was an English major.
Anything under the sun? So with an English degree you are going to become a Nuclear Physicist? Hey, how about you find a nuclear physicist that has a degree in English and not physics. May want to rethink this one too.
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
3) How will the degree be seen by the marketplace? Well, this thread offer some idea....
Yes it will. Those outside of the Humanities are not going to care much for it.
Here's a solution to make non humanities majors happy: tear down most, if not all liberal arts colleges, eliminate those in public universities, and make college a white-collared vocational school. Humanities will just have a spot in the corner of the room. Since you are needed, of course.
My comments were not about humanities majors, but of a specific job and poster, and his clear lack of understanding IRT the scientists he encounters. While I understand his defensiveness, the sugggestion that scientists are idiots due to his experiences with training in software applications is off the mark. His job is needed, but c'mon now, lets get a grip. Also, I don't share the opinion that these degrees, or most degrees, are worthless. For me, college was as much about shaping who I am as a person, e.g., learning how to learn, think, and communicate, than learning a skill set for a job. Ideally, the college experience will provide all of the above.
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debate will not end without one side having their ego boosted. It's as simple as that. The moment I saw the title of this thread I knew it was going to be whether or not a humanities degree is worth its weight. Those who majored in humanities will defend it, while those who did not will strip or belittle.
It is mean spirited and it's just what people do, unfortunately. My best friend has an eglish degree, and she is a teacher, and I couldn't respect anyone more.
eta: I think a better example of a questionable education are those that focuss on quackery. Some people pay good money to learn Reiki or attend non-accredited colleges for metaphysics. Not only do these places provide poor education, but they go out of their way to misinform.
As a society, I think we need our English majors and those that devote their time to literature, and the arts. While my husband is a chemist, he was intersted in an English major because he's good at it. His whole family is very well read. He can put a book away in a day or two. It's pretty amazing. And his dream is to be a science fiction author (or to write for sciam) as many of his favorite sci-fi authors are scientists. He's an excellent writer and poet.
Its not mean spirited to discuss the worth of Humanities programs in US universities or discuss the worth of the resulting degrees.
Well, I think people could be more gentle. Humanities majors have a lot invested in their education and careers and that shouldn't go ignored. Obviously, they're probably privy to information we aren't.
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As do the Humanities.
I don't know. I didn't take a lot of classes outside my majors but I did take Intro to humanities and a Beat literature class. Both were pretty cool and I learned a lot. I also got to party with the son of a Beat writer! It was fun times. This reminds me of a spoof article coming out of my uni just yesterday...covering the same arugment. I have to find it.
I must say that there is quite a bit of parallel conversation on this topic. I have to ask myself, where are on earth are you people going to school such that you have such a cartoonish view of the humanities??
Classics? Philosophy? Art and aesthetics? literature? History? My goodness...You discuss these as if they are flim-flam, when in fact works in these areas have shaped every aspect of our lives.
Are our universities crumbled to such an extent that you are willing to dismiss both messenger and message?
And of those so viscerally critical of the humanities, are you so ignorant to be unable to differentiate between the importance of the topics and what you see as the "inferiors" who major in such subjects? Any such evaluation would not stand up to any empirical rigour.
Or is it that your own social class is so bereft of intellectual pursuits that you reject that which you do not understand? Have you no right-side of the brain?
A truly astonishing thread and one that makes me somewhat embarrassed to have been an engineer.
And user_Id: you are not worth responding to in detail, but I would say that you remind me of students I had that could problem solve once I gave them the problem, box their answer but could not provide any proper interpretation or suggest application or get started unless the problem was already defined as such...mechanically sound, but bereft of intelligence.
S.
Last edited by Sandpointian; 05-14-2009 at 01:53 AM..
Classics? Philosophy? Art and aesthetics? literature? History? My goodness...You discuss these as if they are flim-flam, when in fact works in these areas have shaped every aspect of our lives.
You are equating literature etc, with the academic disciplines. The two are not the same. The problem is not with literature, it is with the academic disciplines. The analysis of Literature does not "shape every aspect of our lives", the novel itself does. What is done in English programs does not shape the world, in fact its completely incomprehensible to everyone out side of English programs. But unlike science (which is also incomprehensible to most) it produces nothing of lasting value. Its methodologically bankrupt. Take History. Just what does the historian do exactly? What is their methodology? Don't you find it odd that someone can get a ph.d in history and never leave a college campus? They merely try to synthesize facts collected by real researchers, but using what methodology exactly?
It seems fairly obvious that you do not have a good understanding of what actually goes on in the Humanities, but you never studied them now did you?
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
....what you see as the "inferiors" who major in such subjects?
Nobody has insulted people that major in Humanities. The only insulting has been done from the other side of the fence.
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
....you reject that which you do not understand? Have you no right-side of the brain?
Says the one that never actually studied the Humanities.
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Originally Posted by Sandpointian
but I would say that you remind me of students I had that could problem solve once I gave them the problem, box their answer but could not...
Naturally, you insult instead of actually responding to real issues.
....Humanities majors have a lot invested in their education and careers and that shouldn't go ignored. Obviously, they're probably privy to information we aren't.
I find this Humanity major vs non-Humanity major thing rather stupid. Either the Humanities are bankrupt (methodologically) or they are not. What degree someone got has no barring on the issue. Its amazing that people cannot address this issue without insulting and becoming emotional.
Regardless, I started my education in one of the Humanities (got an undergrad degree in such) and later studied other things. They are not privy to information I'm not. In fact, it seems a lot of people posting here have no idea what the Humanities actually do....regardless of what they majored in.
I find this Humanity major vs non-Humanity major thing rather stupid. Either the Humanities are bankrupt (methodologically) or they are not. What degree someone got has no barring on the issue. Its amazing that people cannot address this issue without insulting and becoming emotional.
Ok, so why do think this may be the case? From what I've gatherd reading the thread thus far, it's because there's a lack of specific application in the job market. OTOH, I have a hard time finding fault with committed general study that, at the least or most, results in an educated populace.
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Regardless, I started my education in one of the Humanities (got an undergrad degree in such) and later studied other things. They are not privy to information I'm not. In fact, it seems a lot of people posting here have no idea what the Humanities actually do....regardless of what they majored in.
Ok, so why do think this may be the case? From what I've gatherd reading the thread thus far, it's because there's a lack of specific application in the job market. OTOH, I have a hard time finding fault with committed general study that, at the least or most, results in an educated populace.
When I say they are methodologically bankrupt, I'm not talking about the job market. Rather, how the subjects are taught in US universities. Astrology has a methodology, but its not based in reason. The Humanities are rather similar to things like Astrology. They are built around real things, but they distort those things with a methodology that is not sound.
The way science has changed the world are very obvious, but how has English as a discipline changed the world? People will cite literature, but of course the two are not the same. In fact most literature is written by people outside of the academic discipline! English is a stagnant cesspool and the work they do is only relevant to people within English academia. In stark contrast to the science, mathematics, engineering, etc.
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