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Old 04-27-2009, 08:25 PM
 
153 posts, read 688,089 times
Reputation: 103

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, go get a cup of coffee and then come back, LOL! What I'm saying is that I think it's easier to accelerate a kid in math, science, and perhaps languages b/c these subjects don't require as much insight as interpreting literature and social issues. In other words, it's easier to understand e = mc(2), than the implications of the Communist Manifesto. These kids are still kids, developmentally.
The sciences and engineering absolutely require insight, and I doubt most people understand the implications of e=(gamma)mc(2). Sure, e=mc(2) is discussed in secondary school, but to understand the actual physical law you need just as much insight as you would to understand Madame Bovary.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:11 PM
 
1,428 posts, read 3,152,809 times
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Originally Posted by ben52284 View Post
The sciences and engineering absolutely require insight, and I doubt most people understand the implications of e=(gamma)mc(2). Sure, e=mc(2) is discussed in secondary school, but to understand the actual physical law you need just as much insight as you would to understand Madame Bovary.
If I may be so presumptuous as to interpret another person's comment, Ben, I think that Katiana's point was not that the sciences and engineering require no insight at all -- a point I'm sure no one could validly make -- but rather that to understand works of fiction requires the kind of insight one usually acquires only with (or primarily with) life experience. Unless I'm very much mistaken, life experience, especially emotional experience, is less useful to understand mathematical and scientific concepts.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:33 PM
 
153 posts, read 688,089 times
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Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
If I may be so presumptuous as to interpret another person's comment, Ben, I think that Katiana's point was not that the sciences and engineering require no insight at all -- a point I'm sure no one could validly make -- but rather that to understand works of fiction requires the kind of insight one usually acquires only with (or primarily with) life experience. Unless I'm very much mistaken, life experience, especially emotional experience, is less useful to understand mathematical and scientific concepts.
I'll agree absolutely that life experiences are not directly necessary to understanding math and science, but I would argue that they are not overly important in understanding literature either. I imagine that a freshman college student may understand madame bovary or hamlet even if he hadn't had an affair or killed his mother. What the student needs is formal operational cognitive abilities, just as he would in math or science. With that said, many 18 year olds do lack the abstract reasoning necessary to understand literature or science, but I don't see a need for emotional or life experiences, or we should ban college students from majoring in literature. I don't many freshmen with much in the way of significant life experiences.
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Old 04-27-2009, 10:41 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,316 posts, read 120,325,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles Wallace View Post
If I may be so presumptuous as to interpret another person's comment, Ben, I think that Katiana's point was not that the sciences and engineering require no insight at all -- a point I'm sure no one could validly make -- but rather that to understand works of fiction requires the kind of insight one usually acquires only with (or primarily with) life experience. Unless I'm very much mistaken, life experience, especially emotional experience, is less useful to understand mathematical and scientific concepts.
Yes, Charles, you got that right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ben52284 View Post
I'll agree absolutely that life experiences are not directly necessary to understanding math and science, but I would argue that they are not overly important in understanding literature either. I imagine that a freshman college student may understand madame bovary or hamlet even if he hadn't had an affair or killed his mother. What the student needs is formal operational cognitive abilities, just as he would in math or science. With that said, many 18 year olds do lack the abstract reasoning necessary to understand literature or science, but I don't see a need for emotional or life experiences, or we should ban college students from majoring in literature. I don't many freshmen with much in the way of significant life experiences.
I don't agree with that. A freshman has a lot more life experience than a 12 year old. A freshman is, on average, 50% older than a 12 year old, has lived a lot more life than a 12 year old, who can't even drive a car legally. There was a post on this forum once about how hard it is to raise a "gifted" child b/c one moment they are so "intelligent" and the next moment they act like a child. Frankly, I don't see that as oertaining only to the truly "gifted", but to pretty much all kids. I certainly saw that in my own. Kids are kids, developmentally.
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Old 04-27-2009, 11:11 PM
 
153 posts, read 688,089 times
Reputation: 103
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
I don't agree with that. A freshman has a lot more life experience than a 12 year old. A freshman is, on average, 50% older than a 12 year old, has lived a lot more life than a 12 year old, who can't even drive a car legally.
But most 18 year olds have still lived most of their lives at home. Going to high school prom and learning to drive are not experiences which will help a student understand literature. However, from my perspective, this is not the important point.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
There was a post on this forum once about how hard it is to raise a "gifted" child b/c one moment they are so "intelligent" and the next moment they act like a child. Frankly, I don't see that as oertaining only to the truly "gifted", but to pretty much all kids. I certainly saw that in my own. Kids are kids, developmentally.
This is the important point. Teens who are still behaving like kids are not demonstrating formal operational abilities. While they may memorize many things and excel at performing structured problems, they would fail in any college environment where they need to demonstrate abstract reasoning, be it in literature, math or science.
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