What do you think about Community Colleges? (master's, maths, salary)

[Wisteria]

The gap between high school teachers' perception of writing preparedness and the perceptions of college instructors/professors who teach lower division classes is a huge topic of academic research and conferences right now. I don't blame the students. I just think there's a disconnect between high schools and colleges at this point.

I think the changes need to begin in high school, however, if the teachers don't even have the skills, then they cannot pass them onto their students. So, then we go back to the colleges training teachers.

Teachers need intensive classes in general educational skills -- reading, writing, math, etc. I actually took the CBEST (California Basic Educational Skills Test) for teachers because I was thinking of substitute teaching. The test has three parts: reading/spelling/comprehension; basic math; and writing an essay. Testers could take each part of the test separately. And....this is the awful part to me....if they fail, they can continue to take the test...UNTIL THEY PASS it!! There is no limit to the number of times that a prospective teacher can take that test.

Now, since I actually TOOK....and PASSED...all THREE parts at once the first time around, I KNOW just what that test is! So, when I have teachers tell me that they have to take the CBEST to teach, I just chuckle. That test was sooooo easy, that if a teacher cannot pass it the first time around, then they shouldn't be teaching. Those questions were so basic -- which is why they call it the BASIC Educational Skills Test -- that if anyone really DOES have basic skills, they should fly through that test!

When I took the test, I did not study beforehand -- my daughter was younger, I was working full-time, I'm a single parent, and I didn't have the time to go over any materials. I also hate to drive and the test was in another city, so I signed up for all three parts on the same day. When I got to the testing room, I became nervous that I might fail....that classroom was filled with loads of people who had previously failed either one, two or all three parts. The majority were taking only one section at the time. I was taking all three. I heard people saying it was their 5th or 6th time taking that test! So, I thought to myself, "I should have studied!" I was wrong -- I didn't need to study - it WAS basic skills!

The math -- and I hate math -- was just addition, subtraction, multiplication and division. Very easy. And the reading and writing parts -- extremely easy.

When I walked out of that room, I was shocked. Here were all these people taking this test numerous times, and eventually they may have passed it -- what does that say for the quality of people teaching? After taking the CBEST, I truly understood why the teachers were not prepared.....and that's when I doubled up on teaching my child because I knew most of the teachers were already doing a poor job of teaching, but after that test....well, I knew exactly what the requirements for teaching were.

Students will not learn proper writing and reading skills unless they are taught properly -- by people who KNOW the material. And teachers who CORRECT the papers, and then SHOW what the correct way is! It seems so simple, but obviously it is not nowadays.

You're welcome to use my experience as just another story of a disgruntled parent -- an older, educated parent who is very disappointed at the low level of skills many teachers have.

Oh, and the other thing -- it seems that many high school teachers are there just for the schedule. I take my lunch later so that I can pick my daughter up from school. I swear, I drive into that parking lot, and there are teachers whizzing by me as they rush out of there! I don't know what happened to teachers who stay after school to either help the students or actually grade papers (and no little smiley stamps, but actually correcting papers).

I just feel sorry for kids who don't have parents who either have the skills or the fortitude to supplement their children's education at home. Oh, this is certainly a sore topic for me. I wonder how many other parents feel the same way??

Thanks for letting me vent!!

[ducksburg]

Attending community college is a good choice,especially when you already have specific transfer plan since they have matriculation agreements with 4-year universities.

[mm_mary73]

Originally Posted by lorelei2873

I teach communication courses, so now you can see my dilemma! It sounds like you've seen it first hand. Of course, I may be blaming the wrong cause. Perhaps it's not that community colleges have lowered standards, but rather that writing skills have deteriorated across the board.

The gap between high school teachers' perception of writing preparedness and the perceptions of college instructors/professors who teach lower division classes is a huge topic of academic research and conferences right now. I don't blame the students. I just think there's a disconnect between high schools and colleges at this point.

I agree with you and Wisteria. I am amazed at what passes for good writing - my children "suffered" when I proof-read their papers while they were high school students; I can't remember how many times I'd make them write and re-write them. I shudder to think of all the children whose parents didn't get as involved - their's must be the papers I receive as a college instructor - poorly written, loaded with misspellings, stink of cigarette smoke - need I go on? But they do feel good about themselves

[Wisteria]

mm_mary73: But they do feel good about themselves

Oh, yes, those little happy face stamps!! Errrrrgggghhh! I hated having my kid come home with a happy face on her paper and the words, "Great Job!" next to it! (Wouldn't want to stifle "creativity," and ruin "self-esteem" by doing it right!) And then I'd pull out the red pen and REALLY go through her paper!! She may have been stunned to see all the errors, however, she at least learned and now she is very appreciative of it.

Teachers, get rid of those smiley faces and correct those papers!! Students can't ALL have an "A" grade!! In the "real" world, it will only make it worse for them!

[turtlemom]

Back to the original question about Community Colleges -

If the instructors are good, a CC can be one of the best choices a student can make. Yes, the classes are smaller, and there is more individual attention. There is also no "pyramiding" - trying to flunk a certain percentage of students - in the early courses. There are no classes taught by graduate assistants.

As we told our kids, no one will ask where you started college - they want to know where you graduated. So get all those "required" courses that every university wants you to take out of the way in a CC, build up a decent GPA record, and transfer to wherever you really want your degree from. So you graduate from Harvard or MIT or Georgia Tech or CalTech or Yale.

Entrance at the junior or even senior level is much easier than at the freshman or even sophmore level. You can point to your successful course work and a good GPA which then become very positive points toward your acceptance.

Cheerio!
turtlemom

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*
~*~ THE ZEN OF SARCASM ~*~
~*~ 12. If you always tell the truth, you don't have to remember anything. ~*~
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~* ~*~*~*

[houstoner]

Some community college systems are higher in quality than others and I think that's where the differences in opinion lie. Some are just an extension of high school with a high number of students attending remedial classes, while others function more like the "junior" college they should be. That said, with rising tuition costs the stigma associated with community colleges seems to be going away. I know someone who started out at a CC in California, transferred to USC as a math major, and is now completing a doctorate at a private university in upstate NY.

[Pimpy]

When I was growing up, we derogatively referred to the two community colleges nearby as "Princeton on the Parkway" and "Harvard on the Highway". However, like a lot of others here, I agree that a lot of that stigma is being erased.

College costs are just ridiculous nowadays, and if your four-year degree is from a well-respected university, grad schools and employers don't even need to know that you spent your first two at a CC.

The only issue that I have with community colleges is that most of them fail to deliver the entire "college experience" that kids get at four-year universities.

Most CCs shut down about 4-5pm and kids pack up their bags and head home. No fraternities, social clubs, dorms, late-night Waffle House or pizza runs, drunken hookups, or any of the other stuff that makes college the best years of your life.

From a financial and educational standpoint, however, I think community colleges have come a long way in the last decade.

[jxu66]

Good news for students who attend Georgia two year college - Georgia Perimeter college. If you are a student of GPC and if you have GPA 2.8 after completing 60 credits, you can automatically transfer to Ga State, West Georgia College or Kennesaw State. This will take effect this fall.

When I was in Dallas, CCCCD and DCCCD have similiar transfer agreement with UTD, SMU and many others.

[Hawkeye48]

Community Colleges are great. Many are now beginning to offer classes on line and on public access TV as well. They keep prices down at a time when college expenses are soaring.

Additionally, for those that don't want to move on to a four year university many community colleges offer quality instruction in a lot of blue collar fields like auto mechanics and electronics.

[southernlady5464]

Find out from the 4 year college that you ultimately want to transfer to which courses are acceptable from the CC involved.

Some CC colleges in some states have a college track (university transfer)and a business track. The business track usually puts you out in the business world with a degree in management/nursing/paralegal/criminal justice, etc. Liz