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Old 11-22-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Whoville....
25,386 posts, read 35,405,144 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
My definition of a hard science does NOT include "computer information systems," SQL, or C++ programming.

Does yours?
People here do realize that the "hard" in hard science has nothing to with difficulty, right?

Computer science would be a soft science because it is not specific, rigid and accurate. It's not something one studies to determine what it's laws are and we are not, rigidly held to those laws.

However, difficulty is another issue. Computer science has become so specific that I couldn't program if I had to these days. Back in my early days as an engineer, I did my own programming but not anymore. I'm lost with what computers can do today.
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Old 11-22-2009, 09:43 AM
 
1,468 posts, read 2,112,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivorytickler View Post
People here do realize that the "hard" in hard science has nothing to with difficulty, right?

Computer science would be a soft science because it is not specific, rigid and accurate. It's not something one studies to determine what it's laws are and we are not, rigidly held to those laws.
Thank you.

It's easier for me to define "Hard Science" by induction. For example:

1. Hard science includes:

Physics, chemistry, biology.

2. Hard science does NOT include:

English literature, law, finance, management information system/computer information systems, object oriented programming, psychology, anthropology.
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Old 11-22-2009, 11:53 AM
 
768 posts, read 937,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers29 View Post
This post can't be serious. But what do I know, I'm just a liberal arts degree holder and clearly not intelligent enough to see the big picture.
Really? I thought it was pretty spot on. What do you disagree with specifically?
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Old 11-22-2009, 01:22 PM
 
1,946 posts, read 5,367,010 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkin about it View Post
Really? I thought it was pretty spot on. What do you disagree with specifically?
I'm not going to go back several pages trying to find the original post. But that person made a comment to the effect of liberal arts students "not being as intelligent" as those in the hard sciences...hence my sarcasm.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:01 PM
 
768 posts, read 937,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyers29 View Post
I'm not going to go back several pages trying to find the original post. But that person made a comment to the effect of liberal arts students "not being as intelligent" as those in the hard sciences...hence my sarcasm.
I see.

I guess we feel differently.
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Old 11-22-2009, 03:39 PM
 
Location: Central Ohio
10,802 posts, read 14,864,633 times
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Depends on the region you work, what you do and what the degree is in.

I think we all recognize some degrees are invaluable and some less than worthless in the sense you can't get a job paying more than $12 an hour and you got $60k in debt that needs to be paid off in ten years.

Off to college so many go not realizing education is just a business like any other business. 19 years old not knowing what they want to do but unknowing of so much that is available.

We know a young lady that graduated a number of years ago with a degree in dramatic arts from a well known school that put her in debt to the tune of $80,000. The councilor went on about Broadway, lights, fame and fortune without bothering to mention the great majority of graduates never got a job in their field much less on Broadway. But the councilor was in the business of selling the degree and sell the degree he did.

I've often made fun of jobs at Starbucks but working at Starbucks was the best job she's been able to get in a number of years. Paying off her debt she'll be living with relatives until she is 35 years old. If she applies and works hard she can get a volunteer job decorating stage sets. Yippee!

Meanwhile a classmate attended a 2 1/2 year community college getting her AS as a X-ray tech for a third the cost the degree in dramatic arts cost. After 2 1/2 years she had a job making $40k to start and has since gone on to get certified in MRI's and makes near $50k with overtime and on call pay she gets.

Starbucks for $10 an hour or a hospital for $24?

At 19 we're supposed to be full of visions on a perfect life which often centers around having an education figuring with any education success will come but so often, we're sure seeing it now, it doesn't. What is important at 19 turns out not to be important at 30 while the little things, like spending $40 a week on Pampers for the baby, take center stage in your life.

Education is a business like any other business. They are in the business of selling their product so they can eat.

When I was 16 more than anything in the world I wanted to be an archeologist. This dream wasn't a passing fancy I have a a bookshelf full of scholarly books on Egyptology among them Egyptian Grammar by Alan H. Gardiner spending $50 for it in 1964. You have any idea how much $50 was in 1964 for a 15 year old?

Using Gardiner's book I got to where I could translate middle kingdom hieroglyphics... it was slow and painful but I could do it. This was my dream and it went on for years. I would ride my bicycle around the bay area, from the Rosicrucian museum in Santa Clara to the Stanford Museum in Palo Alto (the old one) to as far as I could peddle looking for something I could decipher.

We all have dreams but sometimes the best advice would be to enjoy them but not to follow them.

Luckily life got in the way and not having a trust fund I had to find something to support myself. Breasted and the rest, I got a lot of books.

The primary question today's student must be able to answer in the affirmative is "Can my field of study provide me with an adequate living?" Seems a number of students never think to answer this question. When you are 19 why worry about something four years away when four years is a lifetime. To us who are older appreciate four years is but a blink of an eye.
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,278 posts, read 2,303,006 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nicet4 View Post
The primary question today's student must be able to answer in the affirmative is "Can my field of study provide me with an adequate living?" Seems a number of students never think to answer this question.
Actually, most probably do ask this question. As far as knowing an answer, well that's nearly impossible given the dynamic nature of our economy. Since you didn't go to college, I'll just assume you don't know what college students are thinking or asking.

In 2003, when I was first enrolling in college, the market conditions were nothing close to what they are now. Stocks were at a record high, U/E was hovering around 5%, things were generally good. Fast forward five years later to 2008. Stocks were tumbling, U/E is shooting up towards 9-10%, things were generally awful. The median starting salary data for people with my degree was around $43k/yr. For someone like me, I'd be content with that. Well, with the economy in shambles, I was lucky to find something that paid in the $30k range. I do have a job, but the pay is low. That's not to say that I blindly pursued a degree without doing my research. And I think the same goes for the MBAs and lawyers who currently find themselves unemployed.

Stop blaming the students. Blame the counselors for providing poor guidance and the misleading information that is put out there from legitimate sources like CNN, Salary.com, WSJ, etc. Blame the greed that left our economy in shambles and plenty of new grads out of work. You should also keep in mind that things can change dramatically from the time you first enroll in college to the time you graduate.

Last edited by mcb1025; 11-23-2009 at 10:29 AM..
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Old 11-23-2009, 10:48 AM
 
536 posts, read 1,865,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires View Post
My definition of a hard science does NOT include "computer information systems," SQL, or C++ programming.

Does yours?
The field itself may not be defined as a hard science, but their path to get there may have been.

I went to school with plenty of programmers, and they were right there next to me in the physics, chemistry, and math.

It would be difficult for them otherwise to write programs that utilize this information, or even begin to understand it.

Of course, as with most careers, they could just as easily had no degree.
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