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My philosophy is that it only handicaps you if you let it. What field are you eager to get into? What have you done since graduation to train for an entry level position in that field? Have you joined any professional organizations that focus on this field? Have you went to the library to check out books that educate you on the skills you need for this field? Have you networked with professionals in this field? There are plenty of ways you can be more productive in reaching your career goal rather than posting complaints about your degree on C-D. In doing so, you're getting no where in your career and you're giving arrogant snobs like NYCAnalyst and user_id ammo for their degrading posts regarding L.A. degrees.
I agree, never let the fact that you have a degree hinder you. Sure, maybe it was not the best choice for what you want to do with your career, but don't count yourself short.
I know someone with an anthropology degree that is a software writer. I work with countless engineers that have unrelated degrees or no degree at all.
Will you be better off getting a hard science degree like some on here are preaching? Maybe. But a degree only opens the door. A degree never guarantees a job. Might not even get you an interview. Someone with a LA degree and some knowhow can be just as well off, or even better off, than someone who has a hard science degree but is mediocre.
A degree doesn't make the person. Doesn't matter what kind of degree you have if your not driven.
Perhaps the majority of LA majors aren't looking for that type of work. Did you ever think of that? Perhaps the majority of LA majors pursue fields other than finance. Your opinion is based on your myopic view of ONE industry, only a FEW firms, and of ONE city. You're producing a stereotype for an entire batch of degree holders based SOLEY on what you can see. From your other posts, I can tell that you've graduate fairly recently. Perhaps this sheds some light on your cockiness. So let me tell you this, kid. You don't know what degree every person on Wall Street possesses. You don't know what capabilities the majority of LA degree holders have. So, quit making these sweeping generalizations.
By the way, does it surprise you that Bernie Madoff (the guy who ran the biggest Ponzi scheme ever and conned "brilliant" analysts like yourself out of billions) had a Political Science degree?
You raise a really important point. The "hires" that take place in the highly dysfunctional subculture from which NYCAnalyst writes make up a miniscule percentage of hires in the American economy in general.
In regard to "hard sciences" degrees (toward which, coming from a family of scientists, I am biased):
1. Are quantitative degrees tough and challenging? Check
2. Do many companies find them impressive? Check
3. Are those who possess them presumed, simply by the fact that they hold them, to have the types of skills that most companies need--even when the skillset for the job in question is skewed toward the "technical"? Not even close.
The subculture of Wall Street notwithstanding, most business is about "relationships." As someone once explained to me, "People tend to hire people that they like."
As one CEO recently explained to the NYT:
Quote:
I’ve hired incredible, top-school M.B.A.’s and I’ve had to fire some, too. It was never because of intelligence. It was never because of business acumen. It was because of their inability to motivate, relate to and inspire people.
When I hire people, I love to see practical work experience, even prior to an M.B.A., so people who have lived in the real world don’t see the job as a hypothetical case study. Business is a case study every single day, but you have to be able to get the nuances.
The sneering disdain and bombast with which he has met your thoughtful, respectful, and cogent posts about this topic reflects an underlying nagging jealousy about your academic pedigree. Carnegie-Mellon is "nothing to sneeze at"--in fact it is an excellent university--but Michigan is, by contrast, a great one, and NYCAnalyst knows this.
Are you saying that I am jealous of him? Get real.
Michigan is a good school, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamingSpires
The subculture of Wall Street notwithstanding, most business is about "relationships." As someone once explained to me, "People tend to hire people that they like."
Business is about relationships, yes. But the type of degree someone has means nothing in terms of relationships and getting your foot in the door. (Except if your professors like you and know people).
It's not like every entry-level job is being filled by somebody who knows somebody. Otherwise there would be no recruiters at college campuses.
The subculture of Wall Street notwithstanding, most business is about "relationships." As someone once explained to me, "People tend to hire people that they like."
I believe engineers have plenty of good business personalities ... Otherwise, the majority of CEO's wouldn't have engineering degrees.
There are many engineers that are great contributors to society. I don't think anyone on here is knocking them. I have great respect and admiration for the people who design the buildings, cars, computers, etc. that we use on a daily basis. My hat is off to you, Rei.
Business is about relationships, yes. But the type of degree someone has means nothing in terms of relationships
Ding Ding Ding Ding Ding!!!!
At last something we can agree on.
Great, now since whether you succeed or not is independent (at least 2+ years out) of the degree you had in college, it is dependent on whether you have work experience to build on. If you have no work experience, how can you succeed?
How do you get work experience? Is obtaining a job straight out of college dependent on what type of degree someone has? Yes it is.
How do you get work experience? Is obtaining a job straight out of collegedependenton what type of degree someone has? Yes it is.
No, it is not "dependent" (conditioned) on what type of degree you have.
I actually think it has nearly as much to do with things like whether or not one has a strong work ethic and a charming personality--and prayer and luck, of course.
But maybe you know better than me...after all you are a "Master of the Universe"
Last edited by DreamingSpires; 11-20-2009 at 10:23 AM..
How do you get work experience? Is obtaining a <insert>technical/degree-specific</insert> job straight out of college dependent on what type of degree someone has?
I agree that certain jobs require a specific degree. For instance, accounting, nursing, law, engineering, etc., are all fields that typically require a specific degree. On the other hand, your degree does not necessarily determine your career path or success. For example, a Philosophy major will likely not get a computer programming job straight out of school without any relevant experience, but I have heard several stories where they have worked their way into programming positions by working their way up.
I have a friend who majored in English a few years back. She started out working at coffee shops as you might expect. Then she got a little ambitious and applied for a position with a small marketing firm in Michigan. She was hired in and worked at this firm for about a year, then moved on to NYC. She's now working for a much larger IT security firm working in their marketing department.
I also have a buddy who majored in economics. His first job out of college was with Facebook as a software developer. He's now working on his own start up project.
I have another buddy who majored in marketing. By gaining experience and having his employer help further his education, he's now working in the IT/Healthcare field.
I once dated this girl whose father never went to college. He was a Systems Analyst for Blue Cross/Blue Shield (a large insurance company in Michigan).
The moral of this story is if you're ambitious and intelligent, you have a variety of options available to you in terms of career path, regardless of what your degree is in. You need to focus in on what you want to do, plan accordingly, then go for it.
I agree that certain jobs require a specific degree. For instance, accounting, nursing, law, engineering, etc., are all fields that typically require a specific degree. On the other hand, your degree does not necessarily determine your career path or success. For example, a Philosophy major will likely not get a computer programming job straight out of school without any relevant experience, but I have heard several stories where they have worked their way into programming positions by working their way up.
I have a friend who majored in English a few years back. She started out working at coffee shops as you might expect. Then she got a little ambitious and applied for a position with a small marketing firm in Michigan. She was hired in and worked at this firm for about a year, then moved on to NYC. She's now working for a much larger IT security firm working in their marketing department.
I also have a buddy who majored in economics. His first job out of college was with Facebook as a software developer. He's now working on his own start up project.
I have another buddy who majored in marketing. By gaining experience and having his employer help further his education, he's now working in the IT/Healthcare field.
I once dated this girl whose father never went to college. He was a Systems Analyst for Blue Cross/Blue Shield (a large insurance company in Michigan).
The moral of this story is if you're ambitious and intelligent, you have a variety of options available to you in terms of career path, regardless of what your degree is in. You need to focus in on what you want to do, plan accordingly, then go for it.
It is about opportunity cost here. Let's take your friend who majored in English. Like you said, she was ambitious.
Her path was basically this:
1. LA Degree
2. BS Jobs (Coffee Shops)
3. Small Firm in Michigan (Marketing)
4. Large Firm in NYC (Marketing)
I am not saying she needs technical skills for her current job, but what if she majored in Marketing to begin with in college? Or something that gave her the skills relevant to do what she's currently doing? Could she have skipped steps 2 and 3, and went straight from step 1 to step 4? There are many people in Marketing who have started straight out of college.
How much time did she spend working at coffee shops? A year? 2 years? 3 years? What are the foregone wages from that? Granted, it may not seem like much (for example she could have started a "real job" at 23, instead of 26), but add it up.
Say she could have started a "real job" at 23 (instead of what she did, say 26). Where is she going to be 3 years from now in terms of title / responsibility / compensation? She could be there right now if she started at 23 instead of 26. Where she'll be in 15 years, she could have been there in 12. Etc etc. Draw this timeline out and you get:
The three years she was bouncing around at Starbucks, she could have been at the furthest point in her career (3 years before she retires). By not starting out at 23, she is foregoing the wages / compensation of the 3 years before she retires (where she'll make the most $, have the most responsibilities, and enjoy the highest career success) and replacing it with 3 years at Starbucks.
Now in the long run, yes she'll get there eventually. But she could have gotten there 3 years earlier. (This is the case for all points along this fictional time line).
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