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Every school I posted, a 3.2 would be at least competitive.
If you have a 3.2, and the schools 25th is a 3.65, don't bother. It's too big a gap, unless your LSAT kills.
And that post was in response to someone who was making the claim that schools would give you a GPA "boost" if you went to a more "name" undergrad.
A 3.2 will exclude you from the T10 for sure, almost certainly the T14. Cornell might be a possibility, but only because they compensate for location. And, oddly enough, I didn't list any T10 schools, and only one T14 (which, if you would go look at, his GPA would be right in line with their 25th).
I said he as a good shot at a T30, and would be in at at least one or two T50's. There is a big difference between T14 and T30.
Care to go back through any of my other posts that don't relate to this discussion and try and force them in?
Every school I posted, a 3.2 would be at least competitive.
If you have a 3.2, and the schools 25th is a 3.65, don't bother. It's too big a gap, unless your LSAT kills.
And that post was in response to someone who was making the claim that schools would give you a GPA "boost" if you went to a more "name" undergrad.
A 3.2 will exclude you from the T10 for sure, almost certainly the T14. Cornell might be a possibility, but only because they compensate for location. And, oddly enough, I didn't list any T10 schools, and only one T14 (which, if you would go look at, his GPA would be right in line with their 25th).
I said he as a good shot at a T30, and would be in at at least one or two T50's. There is a big difference between T14 and T30.
Care to go back through any of my other posts that don't relate to this discussion and try and force them in?
I have to disagree with your premise, a GPA lower or at the 25% mark is not really competitive without something else to carry it such as a very high LSAT or other factor such as a good extreme circumstance letter. I have to say I think your previous post was correct and your recent one was wrong. Schools do not forgive GPAs and being at or below the 25% mark for GPA is going to seriously hurt your chances for admission because with many of these law schools there are only a few hundred places (if that) and people with a good LSAT and median GPA will will beat out people with a good LSAT and lower GPA almost every time.
Also I still think you are very optimistic about scholarship aid available (unless you count loans) Law school scholarships are few and competitive and outside scholarships tend to also be competitive, relative to the cost of law school small.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 12-11-2009 at 10:39 PM..
I have to disagree with your premise, a GPA lower or at the 25% mark is not really competitive without something else to carry it such as a very high LSAT or other factor such as a good extreme circumstance letter.
That's exactly what I said. If the GPA is competitive, then a good LSAT will carry you. Go back and read.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent
I have to say I think your previous post was correct and your recent one was wrong. Schools do not forgive GPAs and being at or below the 25% mark for GPA is going to seriously hurt your chances for admission because with many of these law schools there are only a few hundred places (if that) and people with a good LSAT and median GPA will will beat out people with a good LSAT and lower GPA every time.
This is the problem with trying to shoehorn in other posts that you want to make fit.
My post in the other thread had to do with whether or not admission committee's will give some undefined GPA boost because of the name on your undergrad. They don't. As far as they are concerned, a 3.5 from Harvard or Yale is the same as a 3.5 from a state school.
If you are applying to a school with a 25th of 3.65, and your GPA is 3.2, your chances are nil.
But, and this is the same thing I have been saying all along, one number has to be competitive (within their standard ranges). Be it GPA or LSAT, one has to be good for the school in order to be a competitive applicant.
Is there anything else you need me to repeat again for you? Those are the same points I have been making all along.
Are you currently applying to law school? Have you done hours of research on schools and current admission standards? Spoken with any admissions people lately?
I have, and I am telling you that you are misinformed about law school admissions.
That and you need to examine the realities of the profession. If you don't go to a top school or graduate in the top 10% of your class then there is a good possibility that you will not get a good enough job that will enable you to pay back your debt. Take a look around the internet at posts by law students. I have seen countless rants from Tier 2 school graduates who lament their $100,000 in debt and the fact that they are doing document review work for $15 an hour.
If you don't have any "connections" might get beat out at the $15 level.
Hard to think of a bigger waste of 3 years.
That's exactly what I said. If the GPA is competitive, then a good LSAT will carry you. Go back and read.
This is the problem with trying to shoehorn in other posts that you want to make fit.
My post in the other thread had to do with whether or not admission committee's will give some undefined GPA boost because of the name on your undergrad. They don't. As far as they are concerned, a 3.5 from Harvard or Yale is the same as a 3.5 from a state school.
If you are applying to a school with a 25th of 3.65, and your GPA is 3.2, your chances are nil.
But, and this is the same thing I have been saying all along, one number has to be competitive (within their standard ranges). Be it GPA or LSAT, one has to be good for the school in order to be a competitive applicant.
Is there anything else you need me to repeat again for you? Those are the same points I have been making all along.
Are you currently applying to law school? Have you done hours of research on schools and current admission standards? Spoken with any admissions people lately?
I have, and I am telling you that you are misinformed about law school admissions.
I am telling you otherwise I have been researching this for over a year, I am currently (mostly finished) applying to law school. My uncle is an admissions person and I have spoken with him and others about this. I have read several books on admissions and checked into a few others. If you care I scored a 163 on my LSAT and I have already finished my applications for law school for the year...all I have to do is wait for responses.
As I have said to truly be competitive and not just have an outside shot you have to be near the median or have something really good pulling for you. That is because most law schools have so many applicants and such low accept rates usually 10-35% that even if you have median scores you may not get in. Not to mention scores that are at or below the 25% range.
Additionally, a word of advice if you have not already done it...get your apps in ASAP admissions at most places are rolling and the longer you wait the fewer spots there are. Heck at several places they have already accepted the first members of their classes of 2013.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 12-12-2009 at 09:11 AM..
Ok, first of all, you are definitely fine for getting into a decent school - depending on what you want. T50 schools are fine if you think REGIONAL. Don't go to the University of Utah and hope to land a spot back east in a big firm. Just understand that non big name schools will have local firms that draw from those schools, but limited national reach.
I got into Washington and Lee (T30) with a $90,000 scholarship with a 3.25 adjusted GPA and a 168. I was also offered a full scholarship at Wake Forest. I also have a buddy that just got accepted to Berkley with a 164, 3.85 GPA. I was on the low end with grades, he was on the low end with LSAT, but both of us had strong extracurriculars, which helped.
Seriously, think long and hard about law school. TONS of law students go to law school without fully realizing what lawyers do on a day-to-day basis, and it sucks. There's a reason lawyers have a high substance abuse/suicide rate. Walk into a law school and see how long it takes you to find seriously disenchanted law students - they'll likely make up the majority.
I gave law school the thanks-but-no-thanks after one year, and I'm now happily rolling through a masters degree in landscape architecture. Yeah, big drop in prestige from some people's point of view, but I am thrilled to be doing what I enjoy everyday, rather than facing down a career of legal despair in some sweatshop law firm.
There are a lot of smart guys in law school, who work their freaking tails off to be at the front of the pack. It's high stress, because if you're not in the top third, yeah, you'll be pulling in like $40k in some county attorney's office in BFE, if you can even land a job. I've got friends in that position who have $140k in debt they'll pay three times over during the thirty year mortgage they have on it.
But hey, if it's your thing, just make sure you find a school that will give you some kind of scholarship money, go to school where you want to practice, and be willing to work harder than everyone else, and you'll be fine.
I find it difficult to believe you have been doing a year of research, since you seem incredibly uninformed.
Where has this research been, Maxim.com?
My research as been as I said the result of reading Barron's Guide to Law schools, Princeton review, among others attending law school fairs with admissions folks, calling up various law schools, speaking with their admissions folks, and speaking with my uncle who works closely with law admissions.
What on the other hand have you been researching that tells you its likely you will get a into law school and potentially a scholarship if apply near the end of rolling admissions with a GPA at or below the 25% and an LSAT around the median?
I got into Washington and Lee (T30) with a $90,000 scholarship with a 3.25 adjusted GPA and a 168. I was also offered a full scholarship at Wake Forest. I also have a buddy that just got accepted to Berkley with a 164, 3.85 GPA. I was on the low end with grades, he was on the low end with LSAT, but both of us had strong extracurriculars, which helped.
Yes but, for Washington and Lee Your GPA is at or above 25% mark for most previous years and your LSAT is above the 75% mark. As I said if you get an LSAT that good it can work to offset grades at all but the Ivys.
As to Berkley 164 is only a hair below the Median and 3.85 as around the 75% mark.
For those numbers you had a really good shot.
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