Genius, Straight A Student, Student Leader goes to easy State State College (public schools, graduates)
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Why are you quoting the in-state tuition when I'm talking about out-of-state tuition?
By the way Berkeley's in-state tuition is soon going to be around $10k, in the UC system out of state students pay an additional $11k or so. So as I said, the out-of-state tuition is not likely to be much cheaper than a private school. In fact the private schools are often cheaper.
Right....this is the problem you guys don't understand how private schools work. There is just a huge class divide here and I don't say this to be offensive, its just the reality. The top private schools have so much money that tuition is just a drop in the bucket, the scholarships, grants etc are not of the same nature as the sorts lower income kids are getting at state colleges.
I quoted in-state as that was the premise of the OP's post. No state supported college that I know of has automatic admission for out of state students.
What a crock of shyt in bold. Yes, I'm so ignorant, I graduated from a private college myself as did my spouse and both my kids went to private colleges. Plus, I'm a lower class moron. I think I'm done with this post.
I was a national merit finalist from a middle-income family. So, no financial aid to go to ivy league and not poor enough or in a position for other scholarship. (I looked at MIT for a bit before I saw the price tag and they mentioned the lack of scholarships).
So, I went to the University of Illinois school of engineering, which is top 3 in the US and not easy to get into.
I didn't like engineering (I anticipated this) and changed majors. I now make a comfortable living along with many of my other co-workers that also attended lowly state schools. 2 or 3 of my co-workers are Ivy league grads, the main difference between us is the pile of student loan debt as I finished 4 years and came out with only about 15k in debt when adjusted to current college costs.
No offense but you sound like someone from the east coast where the school the kid gets into is a major bragging right and 150k in student debt is seen as low.
My sister did her undergrad at an even "easier" state college and finished medical school at Washington University in St. Louis.
Now, if you want to discuss why you might find a top student at one of the academically low-end state schools (SAT needed around the median score) the answer is probably full-ride scholarship for a poorer student that can't get a similar deal at one of the expensive schools and that they are probably in a field that college specializes in. ie) some "low end" schools have niche departments that are renowned.
P.S. Mentioning "elite" highschools definitely screams east coaster. Around here, the "elite" highschools are public.
Excellent post from a person with experience making this decision. Illinois is an awesome public university, particularly in engineering. The funny thing is not many people seem to know it. This is an excellent example of a reason why a kid might choose a public university over private. Most of the top ranked engineering schools in the country are public schools: Michigan, Illinois, Berkeley, GA Tech... They are right there with MIT and Cal Tech. I know and have worked with several people that graduated from MIT. They were kind of jaded by the experience. Most of the professors seem to care less about their students, particularly undergrads, they only care about their research. That may not be the right choice for a lot of kids.
Exactly, my State U offers a 5 year accelerated BS/MS in Engineering for approved students. It is a well regarded (not top 25, but borderline top 50) engineering program. 5 years of tuition and 2 degrees is not a bad deal. Unless the kid is an absolute genius, I can guarantee that this program would challenge them. Many of the professors are highly connected at other engineering schools as well...many at their alma mater (I had professors from Berkeley, Yale, Purdue, GA Tech, VA Tech, MIT...), and getting into a top 25 program for a PhD would not be difficult for a kid that succeeded in that program.
I'm wondering why they do not start doing this here. Europe has doing this for decades. I realize that european High Schools teach much, much more and don't have to play catch up in College, but those 5 year degrees are awesome. They gotta work on it. I wish more schools would offer those 5 year degrees, but I only know of UT Austin in Texas that offers this for Computer Science. Only CS if I recall correctly.
To attend UCLA as a resident (with merit scholarships), I would have been expected to take out $5000 in loans a year to pay for school, which didn't include any living expenses. To attend my private college, I took out $2000 in loans each year, and everything else (including housing, book money, food, etc) was paid for by grants, scholarships and work study. My school had over $500 million in the financial aid endowment alone to spread among the student body of 1600. To qualify for financial aid, parents had to make under $100,000 dollars. Two years ago, they got rid loans completely and the students now graduate debt free.
Nope, the per student endowment at the top private schools is around 1 million, some are almost as much as 2 million. The annual return the university gets on its endowments can easily cover the tuition for every student. But its not just about their endowments, they get a lot of grants, etc.
These schools don't depend on tuition, as a result they can easily offer generous tuition scholarships to top talent. These schools have an incentive to attract the brightest kids and they will be happy to throw money at them.
Some of the Ivies are particularly good about this. If you come from a middle-middle class family (I want to say around $60K per year) you essentially only pay for beer, books, and transportation to go to Harvard.
There's also a whole tier of private schools who have more endowment than current star power and who are trying to buy their way into the top national rankings. Rice University was like that for several decades as they worked to upgrade the academic chops of their student bodies.
I state no such thing in this thread, rather I pointed out that the responses on this forum are going to suffer from a large cognitive bias. The lower social classes tend to have rather inaccurate ideas about private schools and even feel threatened by the suggestion that they may provide one with a leg up on others.
Its not the act of attending a state school that is the issue, its not having experience with other types of schools that in a sense "invalidates" their testimony. They have nothing to compare it too....
The choice of college in this country goes much deeper than mere education.
Right, you are just repeating the mistaken idea that people at private schools are actually paying the sticker price. The vast majority are not.
But you are demonstrating the effectiveness of the sticker prices though....how?
As I stated, those who have attended and defended state universities are those that have received excellent educations at an affordable price. To refute their experiences by saying that they are "low class" and therefore "have inaccurate ideas" or "feel threatened" is, in fact, inaccurate. Again, you fail to provide any evidence to support your claims.
I come from an upper class family and attended a state university. As I also stated, I know a lot of people who have attended private institutions. I think that pretty much refutes your argument that those who attend state universities "don't have anything to compare it to."
Wrt tuition, out-of-state rates and indebtedness among top state universities and Ivies is actually about the same; there is about a ~10, 000 difference between private and out-of-state tuition (www.petersons.com). However, one does have to account for in-state tuition rates, which are not available at private institutions, and which make an excellent education affordable to those who do not qualify for fiancial aid or scholarships. Moreover, financial aid among state and private universities is about the same as well.
Lastly, the admissions criteria at state universities is not as stringent as at Ivies. However, that has nothing to do with the strength of their academic programs nor of the academic strength of the students they are producing. If you think that an Ivy produces a superior student or provides a superior education, it is b/c you have no experience with state universities, in which case you are behaving in the same manner as those you accuse of having no experience with private institutions.
I think you're really overestimating university endowments. Not like they're all just sitting around waiting to throw money at people.
I went to a private university from 97-01. I was given a $12,000 scholarship per year for all four years. Tuition was about 18K from what I remember (the first year). In addition to that I was given some grants. I remember paying about 800-1000 bucks out of pocket the first year and having around 2K in loans. It was very lucrative.
Though the next three years, tuition increased, my loan amount sharply increased as the scholarship amount didn't increase. However I only graduated with 20K in loans.
Most of my classmates had similar scholarships and some had full scholarships.
If your son or daughter graduated from an elite High School on the top of his class, got a near perfect SAT score and has an impressive record or leadership in countless activities, wouldn't you insist that the go to one of the best colleges in the nation?
No. I'd tell them to go wherever they wanted. It isn't a parents job to make decisions for their 17, 18-year old.
Quote:
In every almost guaranteed admission State College, there are many of these top notch students. Are they wasting their time in such easy settings? Shouldn't they be attending an Ivy League College?
Why? Do you think people who attend Ivy League schools are happier? do you have some other goal, besides seeing your children happy?
Nope, the per student endowment at the top private schools is around 1 million, some are almost as much as 2 million. The annual return the university gets on its endowments can easily cover the tuition for every student. But its not just about their endowments, they get a lot of grants, etc.
These schools don't depend on tuition, as a result they can easily offer generous tuition scholarships to top talent. These schools have an incentive to attract the brightest kids and they will be happy to throw money at them.
Then how is it that I knew several people that had to go to state school because they didn't get money from top-notch private schools they applied to?
Cal Tech, where my DH went, offers to make school affordable for everyone it admits. But hey, look at the size of the classes! There are 891 full-time undergraduate students, about 225 per class. Could they do that with 10,000 students? I don't think so.
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2 or 3 of my co-workers are Ivy league grads, the main difference between us is the pile of student loan debt as I finished 4 years and came out with only about 15k in debt when adjusted to current college costs.
