Genius, Straight A Student, Student Leader goes to easy State State College (med school, career)
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Then how is it that I knew several people that had to go to state school because they didn't get money from top-notch private schools they applied to?
Maybe they applied to a school that didn't do need based funding or they applied to a school who only did need based funding and their parents made too much money.
Or maybe they were just average compared to the rest of the incoming class, making them poor candidates for merit scholarships. The kids I knew who got merit scholarships were valedictorians got 4s or 5s on a minimum of 6 AP tests, perfect SAT scores, spoke multiple languages AND were national merit scholars. They went to good private schools, but not Ivies. The kids I knew who got scholarships to Ivies were poor kids admitted under need based financial aid policies.
If you are middle class and smart but not brilliant, you will be hard pressed to get good funding from any school, private or public. In that case, state schools become a very strong financial option. HOWEVER, I knew tons of kids in the UC system who could not graduate in less than five years because the classes were so impacted, you had to wait until your second or third year to take basic classes in your major. Tack on an extra year or two to a state school, and suddenly the price difference is a lot less. If you are in a less popular major, you probably won't have that problem.
I got fully funded because my family was poor and I looked at schools who promised to meet 100% of the student's demonstrated financial need. My brother followed in my footsteps because it was such a great financial deal and we both got an amazing education. Even with our scholarships to state schools, our private school was a better deal. It is all dependent on the school's financial aid policy.
The only time going to an Ivy League vs. a good state school (think UCs, GaTech, UM...) helps in the job market seems to be on Wall St/Ibanking/financials, and sometimes grad school (I would usually take a top state school engineering grad over an Ivy engineer grad, because the Ivies suck for engineering... if they plan to get their PhD in Econ or an MBA, Harvard would do fine). And, usually, there are far more interpersonal connections going on to help attain said job (family ties, their daddy knows your daddy from Manhattan, etc.). Most graduates from the Ivies make below average college students because they major in useless degrees such as liberal arts.
It's older, but it shows massive grade deflation at the "cream of the crop," Harvard. Almost 50% of grades given were As. 82% graduated with honors (how is it an honor if 82% are getting them?)
I'm also cross enrolled between GaTech and Emory, and let me tell you, GT is waaaaaaaaaay harder than my courses at Emory. Yet, Emory is the prestigious private school. The courses are curved hard, too, and many times, you can be curved DOWN so that the professor has the correct number of ABCDFs. At Emory, they always curve up.
Maybe they applied to a school that didn't do need based funding or they applied to a school who only did need based funding and their parents made too much money.
Or maybe they were just average compared to the rest of the incoming class, making them poor candidates for merit scholarships. The kids I knew who got merit scholarships were valedictorians got 4s or 5s on a minimum of 6 AP tests, perfect SAT scores, spoke multiple languages AND were national merit scholars. They went to good private schools, but not Ivies. The kids I knew who got scholarships to Ivies were poor kids admitted under need based financial aid policies.
If you are middle class and smart but not brilliant, you will be hard pressed to get good funding from any school, private or public. In that case, state schools become a very strong financial option. HOWEVER, I knew tons of kids in the UC system who could not graduate in less than five years because the classes were so impacted, you had to wait until your second or third year to take basic classes in your major. Tack on an extra year or two to a state school, and suddenly the price difference is a lot less. If you are in a less popular major, you probably won't have that problem.
I got fully funded because my family was poor and I looked at schools who promised to meet 100% of the student's demonstrated financial need. My brother followed in my footsteps because it was such a great financial deal and we both got an amazing education. Even with our scholarships to state schools, our private school was a better deal. It is all dependent on the school's financial aid policy.
And this is exactly my point. The person I quoted seemed to be arguing that private schools can give everyone money, which is not at all the case.
Lower social classes? Please grow up. Those lowly public universities have a lot of wealthy alumni.
Yes the lower social classes, not sure why you are telling me to "grow up". I never claimed that public universities have no wealthy alumni, so I don't know why you are telling me they do as if it refutes anything I've stated. The fact remains, like all other facets of life in America the university system is stratified via social class.
Yes, I'm so ignorant, I graduated from a private college myself as did my spouse and both my kids went to private colleges.
I really don't care what you claim to have done, rather you keep trying to compare the tuition sticker price of private vs public. That shows a basic misunderstanding of how the top private schools work as few people at the top private schools pay the sticker price. And note, I'm talking about top private schools not private schools in general. There are all sorts of rancid private schools that provide little support for students.
As I stated, those who have attended and defended state universities are those that have received excellent educations at an affordable price.
How does one know if the education then received was "excellent" if you have no experience of any other institution? It just seems rather silly. If someone has only eaten at a single restaurant and announces that its "excellent" are you going to take them very seriously?
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
I come from an upper class family and attended a state university.
And I very much doubt this, not that you attended a state university but rather that you came from an upper class family.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
which are not available at private institutions, and which make an excellent education affordable to those who do not qualify for fiancial aid or scholarships.
You keep saying "excellent education", yet the vast majority of public universities do not provide such. Hell, the majority of private schools don't as well. If one is lucky enough to live in a state with a so called "public Ivy" or otherwise great public school then its possible one could save money by attending it. But most states have no such school, so if you want to attend an excellent its either private or paying out of state tuition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by StarlaJane
However, that has nothing to do with the strength of their academic programs nor of the academic strength of the students they are producing. If you think that an Ivy produces a superior student or provides a superior education, it is b/c you have no experience with state universities, in which case you are behaving in the same manner as those you accuse of having no experience with private institutions.
Schools with weaker admissions have weaker students, universities do not turn turds into gold. The people you are around play an important role in your intellectual development as a result the demographics of the student body is important. I think top universities provide a better student experience, produce better results and provide a superior education. I have no particular affinity to "Ivy" though, there are a number of excellent private schools that are not Ivy leagues.
I have attended both public and private universities, the private school (not an ivy) provided considerably better education than the public school. I think public schools provide poor undergrad educations, but public research universities can be great choices for graduate work.
If your son or daughter graduated from an elite High School on the top of his class, got a near perfect SAT score and has an impressive record or leadership in countless activities, wouldn't you insist that the go to one of the best colleges in the nation?
In every almost guaranteed admission State College, there are many of these top notch students. Are they wasting their time in such easy settings? Shouldn't they be attending an Ivy League College?
If my student graduated at the top of his/her class and had near perfect SAT's I would strongly encourage her to research top tier schools and would make sure that she had matches, reaches and safeties when it came time to apply. There is no guarantee that any applicant (stats not withstanding) will get into a certain college. Most ivy league schools accept less then 15% of their applicants - most students ARE rejected. Ivy League College Admissions Facts and Statistics
The most important aspects of a college should be fit and finance. Name brand recognition or bragging rights can certainly be on the list of priorities, but it shouldn't be number one, two or three.
When the admissions notifications come in, I would encourage my child to attend the accepted student events that fit into their schedule and do an overnight if possible. We would go over the finances together and make sure that the college that they want to attend fits into the family budget. Then we would buy the t-shirt and celebrate!
user_id, your arrogance and assumptions are quite stunning and I'm from the Northeast and not generally considered "lower class".
If my student graduated at the top of his/her class and had near perfect SAT's I would strongly encourage her to research top tier schools and would make sure that she had matches, reaches and safeties when it came time to apply. There is no guarantee that any applicant (stats not withstanding) will get into a certain college. Most ivy league schools accept less then 15% of their applicants - most students ARE rejected. Ivy League College Admissions Facts and Statistics
The most important aspects of a college should be fit and finance. Name brand recognition or bragging rights can certainly be on the list of priorities, but it shouldn't be number one, two or three.
When the admissions notifications come in, I would encourage my child to attend the accepted student events that fit into their schedule and do an overnight if possible. We would go over the finances together and make sure that the college that they want to attend fits into the family budget. Then we would buy the t-shirt and celebrate!
user_id, your arrogance and assumptions are quite stunning and I'm from the Northeast and not generally considered "lower class".
Excellent post! The rest of the posts might as well be deleted because this is exactly the path an extremely bright kid should take when applying to colleges.
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