What jobs pay 50k and don't need a specific major? (opportunities, chemistry)

[user_id]

Originally Posted by MSchemist80

It also didn't make sense for mortgage companies to push mortgages that were obvious that the borrower couldn't pay.

This is off topic, but if you knew about finance you'd know that it actually made a lot of sense from their point of view. These companies sold the mortgages almost immediately after originating them to private investors, they were receiving large sums in origination fees, etc while taking on no risk.

[Lou347]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

Yes, you chose it. Don't expect a scientist's wage when you aren't a scientist.

I don't I'm not a scientist anymore and I never will be again. I got sick of dealing with America's mistreatment of scientists and left the field for good.

MSChemist should consider leaving soon as it gets tougher the longer you stay. I just want to make sure the truth is out there that the ACS and govt are full of crap. it really frustrates me seeing so many bright and promising Americans fall into this trap and lose a decade of their life, meanwhile the same players keep spreading the same BS and ensnaring more victims perpetuating the abuse. Science is a terrible career that anyone who is smart enough to get into should stay away and persue something that at least pays a living wage and offers a real career. My entire family and all my friends know this now and have learned from my mistake as have I.

I agree I screwed myself, but I made an honest mistake based on proganda and false information and I was too young to see through it at the time. I think we owe it to the next generation to help them make an informed choice based on honest information and not some romaticized politically correct drivel on the value of science nor the self interest of companies who want an abundance of cheap disposible labor, nor the clueless sentiments of the govt.

BTW you asked for my background I specialized in chromatography and mass spec techniques. After Temping a few years and getting nowhere and seeing countless others in the same prediciment it was clear that science is a whole new level of crap/dead end career. Also, I was willing to relocate anywhere.

[Lou347]

Originally Posted by user_id

This does not address the issue, why would any company want bad employees?!

They don't want bad employess but they do want cheap ones and are willing to sacrifice on quality quite a bit or take risks to get cheaper employees. However, It is been my experience that they don't need to sacrifice on quality as there is an overabundance of qualified scientists who will work for cheap because they are afraid of losing their job/have trouble finding a new one or because they feel like artists they should sacrifice making a decent living to do what they love.

[user_id]

Originally Posted by Lou347

I agree I screwed myself, but I made an honest mistake based on proganda and false information and I was too young to see through it at the time.

And what makes you think your current decision to go into health-care is based on anything more? Where did you get your data from? There is a huge bubble in health-care....

Originally Posted by Lou347

They don't want bad employess but they do want cheap ones and are willing to sacrifice on quality quite a bit or take risks to get cheaper employees.

Of course they want cheap employees, what business would want expensive employees!? But no business is going to sacrifice on quality unless it has to, namely if it is not able to get the quality on what it can afford to pay.

Anyhow, if you have two potential candidates one that is willing to work for $40k and the other $60k the candidate asking for $60k will only be hired if he can create an additional $20k+ of value for the company. If this is not the case and the company goes with the $40k guy, that does not mean they picked the "bad employee" rather the employee that provided greater value for the company.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by Lou347

I don't I'm not a scientist anymore and I never will be again. I got sick of dealing with America's mistreatment of scientists and left the field for good.

I'm confused. I thought you were a tech like MSchemist. You stated you were in QC. A tech is not a scientist and does not garner a scientist's wage. The BLS, and I imagine ACS, are not reporting on tech wages. I know co's use the titles, but it's so loosey goosey. Any way, you chose tech work over research, did you not?

BTW you asked for my background I specialized in chromatography and mass spec techniques. After Temping a few years and getting nowhere and seeing countless others in the same prediciment it was clear that science is a whole new level of crap/dead end career. Also, I was willing to relocate anywhere.

This ^^^ is my point. As I told MSchemist, med-tech might have been the way to go for you both.

[Braunwyn]

I just wanted to add that there are techs that earn good salaries in industry. I considered crossing over myself recently, but thought twice about it due to out-sourcing. My co has sites all over the globe, China included, and there is little reason (in my mind) not to out-source all processing. Why pay someone to process samples 50-80k/yr when it can be done so much cheaper outside the US?

What's really being done? You set up the instrument, maintain the instrument, run your samples, have macros or whatever applications that do most of the data processing, and load the data. 2:1 I'd be surprised if either of you were interpreting the data and expected to meet with project teams for direction in their projects. There's little reason not to outsource this type of stuff. Characterizing, OTOH, is a different story. Projects/research is a different story. That's where the people matter.

[senatorpjt]

Speaking of relocation, clustering, and scientist wages, I noticed that they also tend to be clustered around expensive areas with higher wages overall. $80K in San Diego or NJ isn't really all that great. NJ high school teachers make $70K, which puts all the chemists in NJ working in pharma making $70-80K in perspective.

Maybe the clustering has something to do with the "high salaries" for scientists as well. I would rather work for minimum wage here than live in NJ - for any amount of money. This would have more to do with there being a shortage of scientists who have no personal attachments that keep them from dropping their entire lives for a job.

Speaking of which, I had an old employer call me back for an interview (they didn't know I used to work there). I worked there as a lab tech for $12/hour through a temp agency 10 years ago, meaning they probably paid $20/hour to the agency. Now they're paying $10/hour direct hire. According to the supply/demand hypothesis, that indicates there's a much higher supply now, especially if you take 10 years of inflation into account. I told them I'd need to give notice to my current employer and they said they couldn't wait, so they obviously had no shortage of unemployed chemists to take the job immediately.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by senatorpjt

Speaking of relocation, clustering, and scientist wages, I noticed that they also tend to be clustered around expensive areas with higher wages overall. $80K in San Diego or NJ isn't really all that great. NJ high school teachers make $70K, which puts all the chemists in NJ working in pharma making $70-80K in perspective.

Maybe the clustering has something to do with the "high salaries" for scientists as well. I would rather work for minimum wage here than live in NJ - for any amount of money. This would have more to do with there being a shortage of scientists who have no personal attachments that keep them from dropping their entire lives for a job.

It's the same in Boston. You will find scientists where you find research. Here we have a strong industry and an academic mecca. It's not random.

[senatorpjt]

Originally Posted by Braunwyn

It's the same in Boston. You will find scientists where you find research. Here we have a strong industry and an academic mecca. It's not random.

Then again, I've heard anecdotal evidence that the job market in NJ is absolutely dismal precisely because it is such a center for the pharmaceutical industry. There have been so many layoffs that there is an large excess of qualified, experienced people stuck there with mortgages, etc. competing for a very limited number of jobs. You can't say these people aren't qualified, because they were already doing the job before they got laid off.

This makes it even more difficult for someone coming out of school without industry experience. Normally I'd say the specific requirements they put in job listings are nonsense, but lately, there is actually a good chance they'll find someone with exactly the experience they want.

For whatever reason though, the salaries aren't elastic. I think it's pretty ridiculous to argue that there aren't as many qualified people available than there were two years ago, or that there are more research chemist job openings - but the salaries haven't gone down.

Maybe this is just due to psychology. Businesses ask for salary requirements when hiring and use it as an evaluation tool - "What does this person think his talents are worth." Anyone willing to work for less must be incompetent. It couldn't possibly be because they see the reality of the job market and need to put food on the table.

[Braunwyn]

Originally Posted by senatorpjt

Then again, I've heard anecdotal evidence that the job market in NJ is absolutely dismal precisely because it is such a center for the pharmaceutical industry.

I don't understand what this means, if you wouldn't mind explaining further. My family is in Jersey, and from what I hear employment sucks all around. I considered moving back home to be closer to my family several years ago, but that idea was nipped in the bud after a bit of research.

There have been so many layoffs that there is an large excess of qualified, experienced people stuck there with mortgages, etc. competing for a very limited number of jobs. You can't say these people aren't qualified, because they were already doing the job before they got laid off.

One of my colleagues is a transplant from Jersey and another from CT. The former saw the writing on the wall before pfizer bought out wyeth and the latter moved when the site was shut down. Mean while, three former colleagues at my co have left for pfizer here in MA. People tend to come and go quite a bit.

This makes it even more difficult for someone coming out of school without industry experience. Normally I'd say the specific requirements they put in job listings are nonsense, but lately, there is actually a good chance they'll find someone with exactly the experience they want.

I think in today's economy co's certainly get to be as picky as they want and it is harder for those that don't have experience. Keep in mind, tho, that many adds list A, B, C, experience or similar. I posted a couple several pages back. There is little reason a student should graduate without any experience, especially a grad student.

For whatever reason though, the salaries aren't elastic. I think it's pretty ridiculous to argue that there aren't as many qualified people available than there were two years ago, or that there are more research chemist job openings - but the salaries haven't gone down.

Salaries have not gone down for scientists. Salaries suck for techs, always have. After some consideration I don't think that's fair, either. I was speaking with a friend of mine that's a pathologist and her team is comprised of med-techs. She praises their knowledge and contributions, but these techs are only bringing in ~50-55k/year.

Maybe this is just due to psychology. Businesses ask for salary requirements when hiring and use it as an evaluation tool - "What does this person think his talents are worth." Anyone willing to work for less must be incompetent. It couldn't possibly be because they see the reality of the job market and need to put food on the table.

I'm not sure what to say to this. When I was hired I was asked for salary requirements, but I started picking my HR guy's brain to figure out how he would come up with an offer. According to him, there is a standard rubric used for industry in MA. Level of education and experience are the two primary factors. I don't know if what I asked for made a difference. If there's a range, maybe it pushed the offer to the higher end.