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This is only my 2nd semester of college and already I've been in 3 groups where a member blew off the project. My professors have been reasonable and when we let them know, they said our grades wouldn't be affected by the lazy member. On the project I am working on now, the professor let us kick the member out of our group, but he still expects the same amount of work (which means slightly more work for the rest of us).
I've noticed some similarities between the 3 lazy group members. In all 3 cases, they ended up dropping out. In 2 of the cases, they were young mothers. That should tell you something.
I also agree with whoever said this doesn't simulate the real world because you would be fired if you blew off a project at a job. Getting kicked out of a group in a class doesn't even come close to the seriousness of getting fired.
It is not so much my grades being affected by the lazy member but what if that member was going for her phd? I sure would hate her to be my doctor. I am busting my butt, the one member today did not even realize we had a group project due, said he never checks the discussion board and does not care if he turns in assignments late! OMG
It is not so much my grades being affected by the lazy member but what if that member was going for her phd? I sure would hate her to be my doctor. I am busting my butt, the one member today did not even realize we had a group project due, said he never checks the discussion board and does not care if he turns in assignments late! OMG
And this is at the graduate level? Shocking.
I only have experience with 100 and 200 level classes so far, and even some of those professors don't accept late assignments.
Not necessarily, what happens when the individual is very tight with the manager and/or boss? What happens when the manager does not notice that the individual is sub-par because he is always riding coattails?
The sorts of situations one deals with in group in college are representative of the "real world". Better get use to it.
College professors have it tough, if they try to import some real world skills into the class room kids complain. If they don't then they complain after graduation when they have trouble finding a job, working with others, etc. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
I am quite used to dealing with the real world. I've had 7 years of work experience in a corporate setting. I guess I've just been fortunate to work in places with accountability such as human resources to avoid situations like you describe. Given proper documentation, there would be negative consequences in the places I have worked.
I do understand the condundrum of college professors. I qualified my posting as a rant. Sometimes we just need to let the frustration out. My professors did not allow us to rate other members as a part of the final grade for the projects. I think that was a mistake on their part.
It is not so much my grades being affected by the lazy member but what if that member was going for her phd? I sure would hate her to be my doctor. I am busting my butt, the one member today did not even realize we had a group project due, said he never checks the discussion board and does not care if he turns in assignments late! OMG
If this person was going for a Ph.D. and was 'this lazy', chances are they would not receive it, or it would take them a really, long, time.
You would hate the person to be your doctor of what? Philosophy?
Thank you! This is a great post! I faced the same nonsense when I was pursuing my MS at night. The "real world" spiel is apparently standard everywhere. Sorry professor, but I have been working in the "real world" for almost fifteen years with all kinds of people, on teams of all sizes spread across the world and am doing just fine, thanks. Guess what? Your classroom is not the real world, and I am paying thousands of dollars to learn from you and have my work (and my work specifically) evaluated by you.
I see the benefit of group work all right. The benefit to the professor when he or she has fewer projects to grade and shorter lectures to prepare.
Rant concluded.
I agree with most of this. I've been in the "real world" a long time, and in that setting, group projects are done such that each individual is responsible for his/her own share. The boss then knows who did what.
I didn't have a lot of group work in college, but my daughters did and they always complained about it. With so many students working these days, it was hard to find a time just to get together to do the project. And so on.
I had a ton of group work in my undergrad. I absolutely hated most of them. You always have to work with 1 or 2 slackers. Some of my professors had it where you would rate each of the team members and this would affect their grade. Me being the perfectionist would always end up doing a big portion of the work. I specifically remember my senior year, one of the members wrote a portion of the paper and instead of using the word 'definitely' he used 'defiantly', spell checker did not catch that but I did.... It also was hard to coordinate schedules to meet up to work on the project or practice the presentation. I start school again in a few weeks and hoping that I do not have to endure a lot of group work this time around.
If this person was going for a Ph.D. and was 'this lazy', chances are they would not receive it, or it would take them a really, long, time.
You would hate the person to be your doctor of what? Philosophy?
Yes would hate this person to be my dr, lawyer, mechanic, nanny, advisor, counselor, therapist... the slacker of the group? Certainly not the pick of the litter if you know what I mean.
Group work has to do with conformity. It helps to weed out the minorities and dissenters. And group work is easier to grade for the professor. If he breaks everyone up into 8 groups of 5 then he only has to grade 8 presentations. At the end of the day the professors does less work and less teaching. Which is his or her bad.
My stand point is that the university is about learning. The hoops and hurdles in colleges is BS. And group work is mostly BS. And it does not reflect the real world. In the real world HR managers attempt to hire employees that will fit comfortably into their homogeneous work group. Homogeneous groups don't really have to learn anything. They do routine tasks for hours and days on end.
The university is about learning. In the university there are many different types of people, colors, races, personalities, perceptions, and realities. And The university takes the lazy way out and has everyone conform to a normative student profile and dogma. It is done through group conformity.
I think it is worse to work with the dominant micro-managing dictator perfectionist that can't take a hint that other people have ideas of their own. Have you ever considered that people hate working for micro-managing dictators? Not everyone that appears to be slacking off is a slacker. Sometimes they work smarter not harder. Sometimes complex tasks are broken down into much more simpler units that don't require so much work.
Some people bust their hump for nothing. I've seen egotistical after egotistical college student assuming that their ideas and work are Godly. And the guy who is relaxed, highly organized, takes time to simplify complex dynamics into basic steps, and even-tempered is "the slacker." They are often overly critical and if they feel inferior about something they will quickly find a slacker attitude in someone. I've seen that scenario many times.
And a true slacker's work can always be improved with basic communication. I've had a few people in my groups that didn't elaborate or expand on their ideas. They seemed to take a flippant attitude about the work. And all they needed was some advice on elaborating and expanding on some areas that they forgot about. I treated them with equal respect and dignity and engaged in conversation with them like I would with a friend. I helped them brainstorm and in the process improved my relationship with my classmates that were deemed slackers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LovingSAT
Yes would hate this person to be my dr, lawyer, mechanic, nanny, advisor, counselor, therapist... the slacker of the group? Certainly not the pick of the litter if you know what I mean.
Last edited by artsyguy; 05-05-2010 at 01:31 AM..
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