U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Merry Christmas!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado > Colorado Springs
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
 
 
Old 01-07-2011, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
624 posts, read 1,312,891 times
Reputation: 386

Advertisements

At least you did the smart thing Rosie! Had I seen all that, I think I would have done the same thing.

To the OP,

Roads get icy in the winter, cars slide and wreck into each other, people get over-confident in bad weather, happens every winter and I assume it's going to continue to happen...every winter.

Not much we can do about it.

We can blame cops, the city, snow plow drivers.......they don't CAUSE the accidents.......it all boils down to the individual driver. Be safe out there.

 
Old 01-07-2011, 10:20 AM
 
8,338 posts, read 22,631,611 times
Reputation: 8100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carrera32 View Post
I certainly understand self-reliance. I try to be among the first out to shovel and treat my sidewalk;I keep emergency supplies in my truck and home; I stop when I see folks who need some help, etc. And I don't expect streets to be cleared immediately after a snow storm. However, when it comes to what took place on Powers/Carefree, I think we, as a community, can expect a better response from those charged with public safety. I can't believe the city authorities were unaware of what happens on that stretch of road when it snows. Let's face it, this was hardly a major snowfall. What's going to happen when we get a really significant dump? That road should have been a high priority and shut down and/or, if too cold to salt, sanded right away. A twenty car pileup like that should certainly make it a priority the next time there's a significant storm. I'm just thankful the only things that appeared to be hurt were sheet metal and pride. As for who was on that hill that day, I'll bet PokerMunkee is right. Probably a lot of transplants who don't recognize they're in trouble 'til they're in too deep to get out of it. But I'd also bet there were more than a few locals who should have known better.
Your line of thinking that known hazardous areas prone to forming black ice conditions should be well monitored and receive immediate attention is a nice concept ...

But the reality is that many miles of roads throughout the area are susceptible to the formation of black ice in a matter of minutes with localized micro-climate conditions.

It's simply not possible to monitor and respond to these situations each and every time they form. So it's the responsibility of the drivers to use appropriate caution and drive prudently with vehicles prepared for the winter time conditions ...

You will see these multi-car pile-ups every year in varied locations throughout the Front Range ... along I-25 as well as surface roads in cities and towns. That's Colorado winter driving ... there's never been and there will never be enough money to overcome the realities of nature in the area's roads. Sometimes a driver needs to take into account the road conditions and not be out for awhile, or sometimes they need to drive a bit differently to accomodate the road surfaces rather than forging ahead like all is good traction everywhere.
 
Old 01-07-2011, 05:56 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
1,575 posts, read 1,480,071 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Your line of thinking that known hazardous areas prone to forming black ice conditions should be well monitored and receive immediate attention is a nice concept ...

But the reality is that many miles of roads throughout the area are susceptible to the formation of black ice in a matter of minutes with localized micro-climate conditions.

It's simply not possible to monitor and respond to these situations each and every time they form. So it's the responsibility of the drivers to use appropriate caution and drive prudently with vehicles prepared for the winter time conditions ...

You will see these multi-car pile-ups every year in varied locations throughout the Front Range ... along I-25 as well as surface roads in cities and towns. That's Colorado winter driving ... there's never been and there will never be enough money to overcome the realities of nature in the area's roads. Sometimes a driver needs to take into account the road conditions and not be out for awhile, or sometimes they need to drive a bit differently to accomodate the road surfaces rather than forging ahead like all is good traction everywhere.
I agree with some of what you say. People need to drive carefully or not at all during winter weather driving conditions. But stop with the localized micro-climate conditions. Back east they plow and treat the roads more aggressively and, while accidents will always happen, I must say they do a better job.

It's sort of like guard rails. In the east they overdo it. No question. Out here they ought to have considerably more.

Frankly, I think Colorado is "cheap" in terms of many aspects of its highways, including insufficient signage.

But, make no mistake -- I love Colorado, love living here, like most things about it. But it's not perfect (nor do I expect it to be).
 
Old 01-07-2011, 06:21 PM
 
8,338 posts, read 22,631,611 times
Reputation: 8100
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I agree with some of what you say. People need to drive carefully or not at all during winter weather driving conditions. But stop with the localized micro-climate conditions. Back east they plow and treat the roads more aggressively and, while accidents will always happen, I must say they do a better job.

It's sort of like guard rails. In the east they overdo it. No question. Out here they ought to have considerably more.

Frankly, I think Colorado is "cheap" in terms of many aspects of its highways, including insufficient signage.

But, make no mistake -- I love Colorado, love living here, like most things about it. But it's not perfect (nor do I expect it to be).
Sorry, but this is they type of thinking and comparisons that drive a lot of us crazy with folks from out of the area.

When you ignore the FACT that Colorado's snow conditions and high altitude climate are with low moisture content snowfall and intense sunshine even in winter months, it is an entirely different climate condition than the low altitude high moisture content snowfall of those riparian areas of the USA back East. Black ice conditions can form in Colorado in a matter of minutes and without a widespread area warning that they may form .... it's just a fact of life and not something that aggressive snow plowing will alter. In fact, aggressive snow plowing may create more hazardous conditions than allowing a hardpack to form on some roads at a given time.

If they do road maintenance BACK EAST so much better, in your view ... consider that they have snow that builds up through the winter months and must be physically removed to manage it. It's an entirely different climate and weather problem than presents in Colorado.

Perhaps you'd do better to take I-70 East and enjoy the winters back there instead of what Colorado has to offer? I don't mean to be rude, harsh, or offensive ... but your comments reflect a profound lack of understanding of what the climate and driving conditions are here in Colorado compared to "back East". The solutions to accident prevention and safer travel that work "back East" are not necessarily valid in this area, much as you might wish them to be so.

Having driven this area for many decades, I don't find the signage or the guardrail placements inadequate. Again, perhaps you'd do better ... much as you enjoy visiting Colorado ... to locate in a state "back East" which suits your winter time tastes better and your taxation tolerance to make it more of a nanny state with 24/7/365 100% (or nearly so) "perfect" driving conditions. I, for one, am willing to assess the risks of driving in adverse conditions in Colorado and train and equip myself to deal with them appropriately ... including driving in a prudent manner when inclement conditions present. Sometimes, it's even a prudent decision to not be driving for awhile, and wait out the conditions ... which in Colorado, can be in as short a time frame as another 20 minutes. I've had trips to/from the mountains where finding a nice cafe for an hour or so allowed the drive to become very manageable, for example.

Last edited by sunsprit; 01-07-2011 at 07:05 PM..
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
1,575 posts, read 1,480,071 times
Reputation: 1462
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Sorry, but this is they type of thinking and comparisons that drive a lot of us crazy with folks from out of the area.

When you ignore the FACT that Colorado's snow conditions and high altitude climate are with low moisture content snowfall and intense sunshine even in winter months, it is an entirely different climate condition than the low altitude high moisture content snowfall of those riparian areas of the USA back East. Black ice conditions can form in Colorado in a matter of minutes and without a widespread area warning that they may form .... it's just a fact of life and not something that aggressive snow plowing will alter. In fact, aggressive snow plowing may create more hazardous conditions than allowing a hardpack to form on some roads at a given time.

If they do road maintenance BACK EAST so much better, in your view ... consider that they have snow that builds up through the winter months and must be physically removed to manage it. It's an entirely different climate and weather problem than presents in Colorado.

Perhaps you'd do better to take I-70 East and enjoy the winters back there instead of what Colorado has to offer? I don't mean to be rude, harsh, or offensive ... but your comments reflect a profound lack of understanding of what the climate and driving conditions are here in Colorado compared to "back East". The solutions to accident prevention and safer travel that work "back East" are not necessarily valid in this area, much as you might wish them to be so.

Having driven this area for many decades, I don't find the signage or the guardrail placements inadequate. Again, perhaps you'd do better ... much as you enjoy visiting Colorado ... to locate in a state "back East" which suits your winter time tastes better and your taxation tolerance to make it more of a nanny state with 24/7/365 100% (or nearly so) "perfect" driving conditions. I, for one, am willing to assess the risks of driving in adverse conditions in Colorado and train and equip myself to deal with them appropriately ... including driving in a prudent manner when inclement conditions present. Sometimes, it's even a prudent decision to not be driving for awhile, and wait out the conditions ... which in Colorado, can be in as short a time frame as another 20 minutes. I've had trips to/from the mountains where finding a nice cafe for an hour or so allowed the drive to become very manageable, for example.
First, get off your "I've been in Colorado longer than you" high horse. If you want to see black ice, live in western NYS with the lake effect snows off Lake Erie and Lake Ontario. I was raised there, drove a commute into Rochester for three years and saw plenty of black ice on a much more frequent basis than you have here. And while Colorado Springs may be at a far higher elevation, the hilliness of the southern Finger Lakes region is comparable to Colorado Springs...because Colorado Springs is not IN the mountains, it's adjacent to the mountains. And my comments are about snow removal in Colorado Springs...an urban area...I've not mentioned anything about snow removal in the mountains.

In the D.C. area, snow does not generally build up all winter. It's episodic, and while it is different than in Colorado Springs, there's no reason to assume that Colorado has the all the answers to everything on the planet.

You are rude, harsh, and offensive. I love most of what Colorado has to offer. As I said, it's a great state. The one thing I've criticized is snow removal and highway signage. And right away you start the "love it or leave it" attitude. Fortunately, every other person I've personally met out here is friendly and welcoming. And, I pay my taxes here now just as you do.

I thought one of the purposes of this discussion board was to have a discussion about issues pertaining Colorado Springs. To hear differing opinions. To think about other viewpoints. I didn't think the goal was to have a smack down.
 
Old 01-08-2011, 09:09 AM
 
8,338 posts, read 22,631,611 times
Reputation: 8100
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
(snip)

In the D.C. area, snow does not generally build up all winter. It's episodic, and while it is different than in Colorado Springs, there's no reason to assume that Colorado has the all the answers to everything on the planet.

You are rude, harsh, and offensive. I love most of what Colorado has to offer. As I said, it's a great state. The one thing I've criticized is snow removal and highway signage. And right away you start the "love it or leave it" attitude. Fortunately, every other person I've personally met out here is friendly and welcoming. And, I pay my taxes here now just as you do.

I thought one of the purposes of this discussion board was to have a discussion about issues pertaining Colorado Springs. To hear differing opinions. To think about other viewpoints. I didn't think the goal was to have a smack down.
You are marvelously condescending and have a mindset that the hicks of Colorado are going to be enlightened by the magnificence of your "back East" solutions to what you percieve to be problems here in a place that's really nice but needs to be improved to your standards of acceptability.

Apparently, you have no idea of how offensive it is to those of us who have been living here and paying taxes and keeping "our house" in order to a level that we felt appropriate for the conditions and needs and public safety ... to have you come here and tell us we've been doing it all wrong all these years. We folk out here haven't been sitting around in our primitive conditions just waiting for enlightened arrogant people like you to come tell us how we've been doing it all wrong ... MG, it's right down to we can't even do road signage correctly. Yet, we've survived all these years without your standards of road information ... do you think it's possible that it's actually adequate and we've been satisfied to pay for what we've received?

Try looking at this from a different perspective ...

How about, if I, from Colorado, went back to D.C. or Baltimore or other locales "back East" where they've been doing things a certain way for many decades ... and declared that we "did it better back it Colorado", trying to instruct the local folk there that they'd been doing it all wrong for so many years at a great cost to the public coffers?

As I have relatives out "back East", I do have first hand knowledge of how they live and what their environments are like. I don't go back there and tell them how to live in NYC or Baltimore or Miami or Atlanta or their home towns ... differently and BETTER because "that's how we do it back home in Colorado" and it's better and safer for you folk that just don't understand that there's a better way to do things. Yeah, sure, you sure have a wonderful town with a lot of interesting history and it's nice and I like the waters of the area and the fishing and the culture ... but you guys just don't have a very safe place to live, do you? Well, let me tell you how we fix that in Colorado, yada yada yada .... Do you really believe that those folks want to hear about it from me? It's interesting that they all want to come here to live because we are, in fact, different. And the first thing they don't want to do when they visit here is try to make it "just like back home" ... that's the place they're trying to get away from, not turn this place in to what they had left.

No smackdown here ... you're still displaying your ignorance over the road conditions here. By plowing the light dry snowfall away to a very thin moisture layer that is prone to immediate melting and refreezing, road plowing may actually help promote the formation of black ice on the roadways here. It's better to allow the snow to build in to a hardpack which is much easier to drive on and allow that to melt in the sunshine and be slushy or sublimate in the dry air. I know that's not how "they do it back East" ... but it's been proven to be the better way here in Colorado. What part of the different climate conditions here do you not still want to understand?

Last edited by sunsprit; 01-08-2011 at 09:37 AM..
 
Old 01-08-2011, 11:25 AM
 
17,396 posts, read 24,742,451 times
Reputation: 12796
Thread closed, as it has descended into bickering. Good grief.
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 

Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2011 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado > Colorado Springs
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top