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Old 11-28-2011, 09:57 AM
 
Location: Fulltime RV living in the western United States
98 posts, read 185,671 times
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Schools do not require vaccines in order to attend. Colorado law allows for religious and philosophical objections to vaccines, which gives parents the right to refuse vaccination and still send their child to school.

 
Old 11-28-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31471
Interesting thread I just found today! I have worked in immunizations for many years, both for health departments and private practices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by S&AMOM View Post
Where do people get their information? CO has a philosophical and religious exemption for vaccines for children entering public school who may not be fully vaccinated according to the recommendations. To tell someone their children cannot go to school without all their shots is ignorant. I suggest finding a family practice doctor for your kids. There are still some doctors around that respect parent's rights and opinions about what goes into their child's body. Good luck.
This is true, and Mike quoted the law. He left off the part that says, on the Colorado certificate of immunization, that unimmunized kids may be excluded from school in the event of an outbreak. Unfortunately, it's often the unimmunized kid who starts an outbreak!

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I happened to have a doctor's appointment today, and although I am long past having kids, I did bring the topic of vaccinations up with him. He said the only concern that he has about vaccinations is that they should be spread out.
OK, I read the whole exchange between you and suzyq about this issue. She is correct. There is no medical reason to spread out childhood immunizations in any other manner than is already prescribed by the CDC, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics), the AAFP (American Academy of Family Physicians) or any other professional group. These are the finest minds in the business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie123 View Post
One of her children has diabetes. I know that they have a very healthy lifestyle, do not eat any junk food..and are rarely sick. I am for vaccinations but I do respect her choices.
Immunizations do not cause diabetes.

Addressing Parents

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
No, everyone does not have to agree with me. I was just pointing out that you are helping to propagate a myth about vaccines.

You do not have to change a thing you are doing. I just want others to know that there is no medical reason to "spread out" vaccine doses. Lots of people read the posts here.

For everyone:

Believe it or not, it is probably less traumatic for a child to get more than one shot on a given visit. Spreading them out just produces more shot visits to (not) look forward to.

And there are things that can be done to help with the pain of injections:

Reducing the pain of childhood vaccination: an evidence-based clinical practice guideline

Infants up to 12 months can breast feed while getting a shot.

Infants up to 12 months that are not breast fed can be given something sweet before the injection.

Have the older child sit up, rather than lie down. It helps for the parent to hold the child.

The injection should be given quickly. The technique of inserting the needle and aspirating to make sure the needle is not in a blood vessel is not necessary, since the sites used do not have large vessels. That method makes the injection take longer.

If multiple shots are given, give the one that tends to be most painful last.

Rubbing the skin near the injection site before giving the shot may help with reducing pain for older children. See the link for how it works.

Distraction methods --- parent led, child led, or clinician led --- have variable effects. See the link.

Other methods. See the link.
I agree completely, especially with the bold. Getting the full set over by age two is preferable as well. Then the kid doesn't have to fear every visit to the doctor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UltrazGSD View Post
Ryanek9freak, if your kids are vaccinated what are you worried about? Isn't that the whole point of vaccines, to protect from disease? It's always been amusing to me (usually in the dog world, which I was more active in) how little people seemed to trust the vaccines that they professed to believe in so much. By all means, keep your vaccinated children away from un-vaccinated children if you don't trust the vaccine to do what it's supposed to do.
What is amusing to me is getting phone calls from parents of unimmunized kids who may have been exposed to a vaccine-preventable disease. At that point, many parents panic. They have been sold this bill of goods from the anti-imm people that there are no more cases of these diseases in the US.

Last edited by Katarina Witt; 11-28-2011 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: correct grammar
 
Old 11-28-2011, 01:56 PM
 
20,321 posts, read 37,832,470 times
Reputation: 18113
Found a couple of news articles on this topic:

In the Gazette, from August 2011.
Excerpt: "...in 1998, Dr. Andrew Wakefield conducted a study published by a British medical journal that linked the MMR vaccine to autism....Although the Wakefield study was debunked and Lancet retracted the article this year, some people hold fast to the belief that the vaccine causes autism...."

A new article with an analysis by the Assoc Press.
Excerpt: EXEMPTION RATES:Alaska had the highest exemption rate in 2010-11, at nearly 9%. Colorado's rate was 7%, Minnesota 6.5%, Vermont and Washington 6%, and Oregon, Michigan and Illinois were close behind. Mississippi was lowest, at essentially 0%.
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Old 11-28-2011, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26568
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Found a couple of news articles on this topic:

In the Gazette, from August 2011.
Excerpt: "...in 1998, Dr. Andrew Wakefield conducted a study published by a British medical journal that linked the MMR vaccine to autism....Although the Wakefield study was debunked and Lancet retracted the article this year, some people hold fast to the belief that the vaccine causes autism...."

A new article with an analysis by the Assoc Press.
Excerpt: EXEMPTION RATES:Alaska had the highest exemption rate in 2010-11, at nearly 9%. Colorado's rate was 7%, Minnesota 6.5%, Vermont and Washington 6%, and Oregon, Michigan and Illinois were close behind. Mississippi was lowest, at essentially 0%.
One problem is that many of the people who still believe that vaccines cause autism cannot get by the issue that just because the autism followed the shot does not mean the shot caused the autism.

And many of those who continue to evangelize that vaccines do cause autism are financially committed to the hypothesis. Some probably are just too embarrassed to admit they were wrong.

I cringed when I read that a woman from Oregon with a four year old child takes care of elderly people in their homes. I wonder if the families of those old folks know about her decision not to vaccinate?
 
Old 11-28-2011, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,973 posts, read 8,906,249 times
Reputation: 18346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post

OK, I read the whole exchange between you and suzyq about this issue. She is correct. There is no medical reason to spread out childhood immunizations in any other manner than is already prescribed by the CDC, the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices (ACIP), the AAP (American Academy of Pediatrics), the AAFP (American Academy of Family Physicians) or any other professional group. These are the finest minds in the business.
You didn't pay any more attention to what I actually said than did SQ.

So I'll simplify it for both of you.

SQ implied that I was suggesting that the MMR vaccine, for example, be split up and given over time. I NEVER said that.

I am perfectly content with the CDC schedule...WHICH SPREADS OUT the administration of vaccines.

What I am not content with is when a parent says she wants to have ALL vaccines on one day so she doesn't have to have more than one office call.

Got it?
 
Old 11-28-2011, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31471
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You didn't pay any more attention to what I actually said than did SQ.

So I'll simplify it for both of you.

SQ implied that I was suggesting that the MMR vaccine, for example, be split up and given over time. I NEVER said that.

I am perfectly content with the CDC schedule...WHICH SPREADS OUT the administration of vaccines.

What I am not content with is when a parent says she wants to have ALL vaccines on one day so she doesn't have to have more than one office call.

Got it?
Well, no health provider would do that. I'm not sure you know what suzy_q and I are talking about. Some parents, instead of getting Hepatitis B, DTaP (Diptheria, Tetanus and acellular Pertussis), IPV (Inactivated Polio Vaccine), Hib (Hemophilius Influenza b bacterial vaccine), Rotavirus and Prevnar (Pneumococcal) all in a given day, as the CDC, ACIP, AAP, AAFP recommend, want to "spread them out" and get one or two at a time. This spreads out the time that the child is unprotected against some serious diseases. This is what I believe your doctor is recommending. Most of those vaccines require a series of doses given every two months or so until the three doses have been given, thus making the parent come in month after month if they keep at it. There are some combination vaccines for these antigens, such as Pentacel, which is DTaP, Polio and Hib, and Pediarix which is DTaP, Hepatitis B and polio, so it's not like a kid is getting five shots. Rotavirus vaccine is oral.

And yeah, there are people who want to split up MMR (no longer possible; the single antigen vaccines aren't made any more), and/or split up DTaP, or some other combination vaccine.

Got it?
 
Old 11-28-2011, 10:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
18,973 posts, read 8,906,249 times
Reputation: 18346
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katiana View Post
Well, no health provider would do that. I'm not sure you know what suzy_q and I are talking about. Some parents, instead of getting Hepatitis B, DTaP (Diptheria, Tetanus and acellular Pertussis), IPV (Inactivated Polio Vaccine), Hib (Hemophilius Influenza b bacterial vaccine), Rotavirus and Prevnar (Pneumococcal) all in a given day, as the CDC, ACIP, AAP, AAFP recommend, want to "spread them out" and get one or two at a time. This spreads out the time that the child is unprotected against some serious diseases. This is what I believe your doctor is recommending. Most of those vaccines require a series of doses given every two months or so until the three doses have been given, thus making the parent come in month after month if they keep at it. There are some combination vaccines for these antigens, such as Pentacel, which is DTaP, Polio and Hib, and Pediarix which is DTaP, Hepatitis B and polio, so it's not like a kid is getting five shots. Rotavirus vaccine is oral.

And yeah, there are people who want to split up MMR (no longer possible; the single antigen vaccines aren't made any more), and/or split up DTaP, or some other combination vaccine.

Got it?
Let me repeat it again. I AM PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH THE CDC SCHEDULE, WHICH SPREADS THINGS OUT. I AM NOT ARGUING AGAINST THE CDC SCHEDULE. I AM SUPPORTING IT.

But as a former school principal, I had MOTHERS who would come in and say, "My daughter (or son) won't be in school tomorrow because we are going to the doctor and having every vaccine all at once so that I don't have to take another day off from work." It's not possible, it's not reasonable, and a cheap parent is not what is best for a child.

And once again, since you want to throw in my face what you THINK I was saying, I have never suggested splitting up the MMR vaccine or any other combination vaccine.

And, I'll just repeat what every doctor, nurse, or nurse practitioner has asked me before I've had any vaccine (and since I traveled extensively in Southeast Asia over a 25 year period, and had everything from typhoid to yellow fever vaccines, I've probably had far more vaccines than you) -- "Have you ever had a reaction to a vaccine before?" Now why do you think they ask that before giving another vaccine?

I am done with this topic. I am so sorry that some people have been so offended by another person having a slightly different point of view on a topic.
 
Old 11-28-2011, 10:05 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
21,549 posts, read 26,166,023 times
Reputation: 26568
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
I happened to have a doctor's appointment today, and although I am long past having kids, I did bring the topic of vaccinations up with him. He said the only concern that he has about vaccinations is that they should be spread out.
To me, this statement means waiting longer than the recommended interval between doses. It imples a deviation from the standard schedule.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Well, although a strong supporter of vaccines for both adults and children, I'm not quite sure I agree with that. After all, at age 62, I was recently directed that it was essential to have a wait of at least 3 weeks between the shingles and flu vaccines.
I then pointed out that there is controversy about the necessity to do that. This is an adult vaccine situation, not a pediatric one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
There are 11 immunizations that are recommended for children, and they are recommended to be spread out from birth to ages 4-6. There's a recommended "catch-up schedule" for older children, where the vaccines are recommended to be spread out from ages 7-18. Suggest you check out recommendations by the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices.
At this point, you are still using "spread out". This is confusing, because when parents say "spread out", they mean do not give more than one injection on a single visit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by suzy_q2010 View Post
My post was directed at the comment about a child getting four injections in one visit. The point is that there is no reason to split an MMR into three shots or a DTaP into three shots or not to get more than one injection on a given day. There is no need to "spread out" the vaccines over a longer interval than the standard schedule.

Since you mention the schedule, here it is:

http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/spec-grp...sch-0-6yrs.pdf

There are 14 vaccine preventable diseases in the list. Many of the newer vaccines are being added to combination products to reduce the number of injections needed.
Here is where I made the comment about splitting combined vaccines into the components. This is what many people mean when they say they want the vaccines "spread out."

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Suzy, do the shots any way you wish. I just passed on that my doctor recommends that parents spread them out.
Again, this implies that your doctor does not use the standard schedule but gives the vaccines at some longer interval.

Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
You didn't pay any more attention to what I actually said than did SQ.

So I'll simplify it for both of you.

SQ implied that I was suggesting that the MMR vaccine, for example, be split up and given over time. I NEVER said that.

I am perfectly content with the CDC schedule...WHICH SPREADS OUT the administration of vaccines.

What I am not content with is when a parent says she wants to have ALL vaccines on one day so she doesn't have to have more than one office call.

Got it?
Well, actually, the CDC schedule is the recommended schedule, not one that is "spread out."

From your other posts, both Katiana and I both received the impression that you were using "spread the vaccines out" to mean giving doses at greater than the recommended intervals and not giving multiple injections at one office visit. That is what most people mean when they say "spread the vaccines out."

It appears that we both misunderstood, and what you were really saying is to give the vaccines at the recommended interval, not to "spread them out" over a longer time frame.

No physician would give all of the vaccines at one visit. That makes no sense. Each vaccine has its own schedule, and if the schedules for several vaccines coincide, it is all right to give them all at the same visit, even though it means more than one shot. That is all I have been trying to say.

If I misunderstood what you were saying, I apologize.
 
Old 11-29-2011, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
85,025 posts, read 98,908,697 times
Reputation: 31471
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Let me repeat it again. I AM PERFECTLY CONTENT WITH THE CDC SCHEDULE, WHICH SPREADS THINGS OUT. I AM NOT ARGUING AGAINST THE CDC SCHEDULE. I AM SUPPORTING IT.

But as a former school principal, I had MOTHERS who would come in and say, "My daughter (or son) won't be in school tomorrow because we are going to the doctor and having every vaccine all at once so that I don't have to take another day off from work." It's not possible, it's not reasonable, and a cheap parent is not what is best for a child.

And once again, since you want to throw in my face what you THINK I was saying, I have never suggested splitting up the MMR vaccine or any other combination vaccine.

And, I'll just repeat what every doctor, nurse, or nurse practitioner has asked me before I've had any vaccine (and since I traveled extensively in Southeast Asia over a 25 year period, and had everything from typhoid to yellow fever vaccines, I've probably had far more vaccines than you) -- "Have you ever had a reaction to a vaccine before?" Now why do you think they ask that before giving another vaccine?

I am done with this topic. I am so sorry that some people have been so offended by another person having a slightly different point of view on a topic.
Please get over your offense. Certainly none was intended on my part. You did not understand what suzq_q and I were saying. Perhaps we misunderstood you as well.

The example you gave did not make sense. Yes, when a child sees the dr or practitioner for a well visit, every vaccine s/he can have is offered. The regular CDC schedule recommends that at age 4-6 (and Colorado requires this at kindergarten entry) a child get DTaP, IPV, MMR and chickenpox. All at once. I repeat, that is the recommendation. The next time a student needs any shots for school is at 7th grade entry, when the only requirement is a tdaP; some practices (such as the one I work for) also recommend the meningitis vaccine at that time. There is no medical reason not to get both together. The other vaccines are given well before kindergarten. I don't understand why you would have so many kids taking off school to get shots to begin with.

Next time you go to your doctor, why don't you ask him/her is s/he follows the CDC schedule, just for fun.
 
Old 11-29-2011, 01:10 AM
 
Location: 900 miles from my home in 80814
4,674 posts, read 6,749,825 times
Reputation: 7088
Colorado ranks No. 2 in parents declining to vaccinate kids - The Denver Post

Apparently, Coloradoans don't like to immunize their kids. Sadly, the reason most cited was the British Study Mike referred to which has long since been debunked. Only Alaska had more un-immunized kids. When you don't immunize your kids, the only ones you hurt are them.
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