GreatSchools.org not reliable for information about schools in our area (real estate, best schools)

[otowi]

So out of curiosity as a local educator, I tried looking up some information about local schools online in a way that someone thinking of moving here might.

I just wanted to spread the warning that a lot of the sources of information are pretty terrible.

Greatschools.org seems to be popular but I found a lot of flaws with it.

1. Its data is inaccurate and at best about 3-4 years out of date - all the data, not just one piece or another - but every piece. A lot changes in a school in 3-4 years - their data is frankly worthless.

2. Its ratings seem to be based almost entirely on test scores, but only certain ones. A lot of our schools are under-ranked because of parents opting students out of taking standardized tests rather than actual poor performance.

3. Reviews are unreliable because I could find evidence that almost every top-reviewed school had solicited or coerced these reviews - I even found a few reports (location not mentioned) of parents of being told they were required to post 5 star reviews to get into the school (charters etc. mostly), etc.

For more accurate data, I suggest parents go to the Colorado Department of Education. https://www.cde.state.co.us/schoolview

And above all, I encourage parents to schedule visits with schools and go and see them for themselves.

[TCHP]

I've wondered about that. My kids' high school has several rating categories of 1-3, have one category as a 6, yet their overall score was a 5. Even the comment section tended to rate primarily with 4 and 5 stars, while having a couple of 1-2, yet the overall commentary score was mediocre as well.

What do you think of schooldigger? I've found it has more tools for sorting and searching than greatschools.

[otowi]

Originally Posted by TCHP

I've wondered about that. My kids' high school has several rating categories of 1-3, have one category as a 6, yet their overall score was a 5. Even the comment section tended to rate primarily with 4 and 5 stars, while having a couple of 1-2, yet the overall commentary score was mediocre as well.

What do you think of schooldigger? I've found it has more tools for sorting and searching than greatschools.

I hadn't heard of it, but wow, it is the same or perhaps even worse. The data looks even older, the school boundaries of several schools are wrong - several years out of date, it has the same issue with dinging schools on test scores for parents opting kids out of tests, and has test data only from tests we don't even give in Colorado any more.

[hollyt00]

I've liked this site- Find Colorado's best schools

I don't like Great Schools either, at all.

[hollyt00]

I do have to say one big reason why we shouldn't look at test scores-

each grade is different. Currently, our Sophomore class, for example, is full of smart kids. That means the programs/testing is going to be naturally higher. Our Freshman class is... not as bright... and as a result, next year won't be as good.

I looked at the high school I teach at and we are at a C-. Why? Well, because last year our science test scores were awful. There was a confluence of ridiculous reasons that coalesced into just abysmal scores- the scores were so low that those of us who even know a tad bit about averaging and test scores were skeptical to the results. (it would have meant that *no one* at all- not even our brightest kids- would have scored well on the test)

D11 on the surface isn't doing so well. My son goes to Steele Elementary and I've always been impressed with that school. Each school is different and one or two lower performing schools will drag down some rankings of the district as a whole.


Currently what I'm looking at out of curiosity is the district turnover report I found on the CDE website. Very enlightening, especially regarding my district.

[Gorges]

Another problem is that some real estate sites, especially Zillow, are showing old Great Schools data in some parts of the country. For example, Zillow is showing that a middle school in my area is rated a 6 by Great Schools, but if you go to the Great Schools website, it's an 8. Redfin also shows Great Schools data, but I've found it to be more accurate. So if you're determined to use GreatSchools data, at least get your information from its website, and not a real estate site.

[otowi]

Originally Posted by hollyt00

I've liked this site- Find Colorado's best schools

I don't like Great Schools either, at all.

I do like that they indicate if a school had low test preparation, but they do not show you where the data is coming from or they arrive at the scores. They could easily be hiding the outdatedness or unreliability of their data by simply saying less about it. To me, so far all these sites seem worthless.

[otowi]

Originally Posted by hollyt00

I do have to say one big reason why we shouldn't look at test scores-

D11 on the surface isn't doing so well. My son goes to Steele Elementary and I've always been impressed with that school. Each school is different and one or two lower performing schools will drag down some rankings of the district as a whole.

Currently what I'm looking at out of curiosity is the district turnover report I found on the CDE website. Very enlightening, especially regarding my district.

I agree that the test score data is hugely misleading and really does not give much info about the quality of the school. As an educator, I never look at test scores in evaluating the effectiveness of a school aside from something like a huge decline or increase - in those cases, I would then want to know what caused that - low participation, some kind of event at the school, changed boundaries, etc.

As for D11 on the surface not doing well - I think when you actually look at things that matter - the quality of education going on in the schools - usually D11 is quite good but it just doesn't always show up in shiny factors like test scores due to socioeconomic issues/mobility/low participation in tests, etc. I don't think any district is perfect, but there are a lot of D11 schools I'd rather see my kids in than in some of the D20 ones - in other words - test scores and reputation can be misleading.

As for turnover - I know D11 had a few reasons for increased turnover of staff - one was the closing of Wasson and several other schools - when that happened, some jobs were lost and some people were just not wanting to be in a district closing schools and moving principals around, etc. - the drama factor. Another reason is D11 struggles to be competitive in pay for seasoned teachers due to the funding issue - the years of pay freezes meant many people realized they could leave and do the same job in another district for thousands more a year and the economics just trumped their desires to stay where they were. My school has been increasingly stable in recent years - good admin team and so on has made it a very desirable place to work.

[otowi]

Also - looking at some of the top-rated schools, most of them there is no way in heck I would put my kids in them. For example - a lot of the top-rated schools that are charters play nasty games with parents and kids to get those ratings and test scores - I've seen everything from bullying and forcing parents to give top ratings and reviews to making a kid who passed a grade with all As and Bs except one C repeat the grade or lose her spot in the school and go back to the lottery - the purpose behind that being to manipulate test score data. They deny services to most kids with any kind of special need or disability, too. And most importantly, the morale and atmosphere at a lot of these schools are ones which put kids under extreme pressure and if you're not the star child of the school boy will your kid be made to suffer for it. I've seen a lot of these places assigning 12-year-olds 4-6 hours of homework a night 7 days a week. I just find that a lot of these schools do not have healthy, well-rounded environments and they seem to care more about their reputation/image/scores than the children in their schools. I worked in a few of them for awhile and I ended up leaving for more traditional schools because I didn't like the manipulative games they played to game the system and I didn't like the way 12-year-olds were getting ulcers and drug abuse problems trying to cope with the repression and stress they were put under, etc. I just do not think that kind of environment is necessary for children to excel.

[BRoss22]

I agree OP, it's been very misleading to put a lot of faith into the greatschool ratings. Your thread is timely because my wife and I just moved to COS and will be having my son start second grade at Discovery Canyon Elementary. The few reviews I can find aren't that great. Any thoughts?