First visit to Colorado Springs, a smashing success (Denver, Erie: apartment, to rent)

[lurtsman]

I hope you enjoy Denver. We found the pay for my wife in Denver would be significantly lower. Keep in mind we are also moving away from a field of corn. The business program out here refuses to accept applicants unless they agree to LEAVE after graduation because there are no jobs. Meanwhile tax dollars are spent on crap to bemoan the "brain drain" of people leaving after they graduate. It is still one of the most highly educated cities in the country, since most everyone is either here for college, or moved here after getting a masters.

My business will be done mostly online, and shipping from Colorado may be a slight improvement. I can't imagine moving to a city with the traffic Denver has. I'll be excited to make a few trips up there for various reasons, but I doubt I'll go more than once or twice a year. I think it is all a case of figuring out what you want in a city. It appears CoS will be able to provide me with some finance jobs, but I'll be okay if it doesn't. My default plan is to run housing rentals anyway. I'll take a salaried job with my MBA if they are able to offer me a package that is attractive enough to leave what I'm doing. Out here, that wasn't going to happen.

PS. I didn't see homeless people on our trip. Did we really manage to send them to Denver? I heard about the homeless problem before. I was glad the city was doing something about it--and yes, sending them on to Denver would qualify as "doing something" in my book.

[hollyt00]

Did you visit downtown fairly frequently when you visited? If so, you would have seen them, and if you did, you may have missed many. There are some panhandlers, and the area by the Marion House has a lot of homeless, as does around the VA building across from I-25. Many people at Acacia Park (downtown) are homeless as well.

Farther south from downtown, probably about ten blocks or so, you'd find a large-ish concentration of homeless as well around the various soup kitchens and homeless outreach centers.

Certainly compared to a larger city like Denver (try walking down the 16th street Mall around 8-10pm with some leftovers from a restaurant and you'll see what I mean) we don't have as much homeless, but we do have homeless in the area, and there have been lots of gains by the police to have homeless outreach and there are some services like Springs Rescue Mission or the Marion House, just to name two. Gains especially compared to two years ago. That was really sad

We have a camping ban in place, no camping in public places (anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong with the details), and many people likely did what Ryanek said- they moved up to Denver where they didn't pass any city codes like that (though it's in the works, or recently just passed).

[PokerMunkee]

Denver just passed a camping ban last week. If I was homeless, I would live somewhere like San Diego or Florida. Why Colorado? A lot of the beggers on the side of the road aren't even homeless. They make more than $100/day for a few hours of easy work, sure beats working fast food or at Walmart.

[lurtsman]

Indeed. Begging is becoming a valuable skill, at least compared to flipping burgers or wasting your life at Walmart. The Walmarts make me so sad I wish I didn't have to go in them, but there isn't much else for groceries there. I'll be glad to be near a Sams and a Costco. Well, near two of each.

I imagine eventually they will move on to California or Oregon, somewhere with more suitable weather for living outside. Those places also pass laws that tax residents to provide hand outs, which encourages more of the homeless population to move there. Perhaps it has just become easier for me to look past because in Portland we had SO many. Rare was the day I could go to class without someone asking me for money. I'll admit, there were a few that I would regularly donate to who were genuinely trying to support themselves. We even had a homeless newspaper. The journalists were homeless people writing about what they saw on the street. It was mediocre as far as content went, but they had a job. That's more than you can say for most teenagers or twenty somethings.

Only reason I see for them to be in Colorado is that it is absolutely beautiful, and if they grey hound out to Cali for the winter, Colorado would be a good place to summer.

[otowi]

Well, if you become homeless here, and you are truly broke and know no one or don't trust anyone, I can see where it isn't a completely easy thing to get yourself to a whole new city you know nothing about with little or no money to get there and no connections when you arrive just because there is talk on the street that it is better for homeless people. Probably many homeless people don't, at least initially, plan on making a whole life of it. They think it is going to be temporary, and they may consider this place home.

[lurtsman]

The numbers point to homeless people relocating with a great deal of success. Look at the records for the number of homeless people in each city. There are far more of them in cities that provide a better system for them. As for being broke, I'd bet that I could start in CS with nothing but the clothes I was wearing and make it to LA in under 5 days. I don't see a reason to actually do it unless someone was paying me, but the system isn't that hard. Doing it during winter would be much worse, but summer, spring, or fall, I could easily do it in 5 days. Half way decent begging earns 100$ in under 6 hours. First days begging supplies me with food money for the week, day 2 and 3 cover greyhound fares. Days 4 and 5 are spent riding. Evening of the 5th I'd be arriving.

I am not suggesting that LA is the ideal place. It's been a while since I studied this, but I was curious and did actually do some research. The west coast isn't a bad place to be, and in general it is advisable to move to the coasts if the future is being homeless. However, there are generally three types of homeless people. 1. The visible type. These are rarely homeless or choose to spend their money on drugs. 2. The less visible type. These people usually have severe brain disorders and border on the line of being able to function independently. They do not have family to take care of them, and have a legitimate claim to a small part of societies resources to establish a safe (though not comfortable) area for them to exist. 3. The temporary homeless. These are the most rare. These are people whose brains work and who usually live out of a vehicle for a short while as they get back on their feet. I have compassion for them, but in limited amounts. I don't like policies that make it easier to continue being homeless, I like policies that subsidize the tools to get out of being homeless. Even if it is just making it easier for them to find minimum wage jobs. Yes, you can make it on minimum wage. It requires 1 room mate and no kids. The room mate could be your spouse, or just someone you met on Craigslist. If they are, like you describe, seeing it as temporary, then they should also be hoping for a system that allows them to find work. I would like nothing more than to see these people rejoin the ranks of adults who are able to pay for their own housing.

[lurtsman]

PS. My wife and I actually considered getting a tent and camping while we looked for an apartment to rent or a house to buy just so we could save on hotel bills. I am anything but an upper class silver spoon elite thumbing my nose at the down trodden.

[lurtsman]

Redirect:

This thread has gotten off topic, and I don't want it to be locked. I'd like to be a resource for people considering moving here and wanting to know what it is like to visit.

I'm still in Iowa City, but I'm counting down the days til we move. I can't recall the last time I took a day off. I'm working on getting ready every day. I've watched the weather reports there, I've looked at houses, and I'm thrilled to be moving. For anyone considering moving there, I'd recommend a one week trip. I found the Microtel offers the best rates with a roomsaver coupon. Best rates once you discount places that are in less safe areas.

The downside is that there are quite a few areas that seem beat up, and that saddens me because this is a beautiful city and I think some people are missing out. They don't realize they live in one of the best cities in the country. Of course, that depends on what things you want in a city. I did notice that parking at stores is easy, but apartments and condos have very limited parking.

People moving here should be aware of the hail, which causes many places to offer "car ports" that are completely unheard of in many parts of the country. For those that live there--does the hail usually fall near straight down, or does it blow hard to the side?

I've noticed many more service men and women in their uniforms around town. Is it considered weird if you thank them? I usually make a point of it in the air port. I figure they are most likely either leaving their family, or returning from several months (or years) of risking their life to protect us. They should be welcomed home.

[iknowftbll]

Lurtsman,

Congratulations on your decision to relocate to Colorado Springs. It is a fantastic city. Like any place, it is not without its flaws, but if you realize that going in, and combined with the knowledge that NO place is 100% perfect, you will be fine. If you value outdoor recreation opportunities, Colorado Springs is a tough place to beat. The city has a decided conservative slant and usually votes red, though even if you lean left, I don't think that will bother you as far as "a day in the life of Lurtsman" is concerned. People generally respect others there.

The city is a big Army and Air Force mecca. It is not inappropriate to thank them for their service, but certainly not required either. My brother lives in Colorado Springs currently and has complained to me that some of these service members (usually the younger ones) seem to have a "you owe me something" chip on their shoulder and expect businesses to give them discounts and often complain if a business doesn't give one. I believe these types are few and far between, but I am in the Marines and know that we have this mentality within our ranks as well. Again, it is rare to see this sort of behavior out of service members, but I know that it can be a big disappointment to citizens when they do see it. If you witness this sort of behavior from any of our boys in uniform, please know that it is not the way we all are!

The longer you live there, the more you'll learn about some of the little secrets that don't always make the travel pamphlets. Helen Hunt Falls is one such location. It is a fantastic day-hike opportunity on the SW side of town. Think Monday afternoon in the summer time when you get off work and still have several hours of daylight and nice weather.

The city, like all places has taken some pretty good blows from the stagnant economy. I am not going to discuss the politics of economics, just know that some projects stalled due to funding or investors pulling out, etc...Be warned when locating your own business. If it is internet based, perhaps it will not be a problem for you.

Keep us informed as you prepare for the move. I think you've picked a good one, Colorado Springs is a very under-rated city. Good luck to you and your wife!

[ryanek9freak]

It's not weird, but it kinda makes me uncomfortable when people thank me, I'm just doing a job that I signed up for and to me it's no big deal.

I'm no 11Bravo, far from it, and even though I'm in Afghanistan, The guys who deserve hero status and thanks are the ones going on patrol outside the wire and risk thier lives.

SO yea, if you see a 4th ID soldier, go ahead and thank them. For us Fobbits, no thanks are necessary.