Time to focus on getting the job done (crime, loans)
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We've had these tax threads before....always end the same....I end up closing them when the name calling and angry rants start. So far so good. I'd love to have one tax thread that doesn't end up in the dead files. Maybe if we all work together we can solve a few things.
Bumper sticker slogans don't impress me, if cutesy quips and sound bytes solved things we'd all be rich....
On the issue of being "pro-teacher" count me in on that one. It was my teachers (and some damned good mentors) that made me the swell guy that I am, not my screaming drunk father.
I read a sad article today in the April 16, 2012 issue of Time. Some conservative writer was looking into what he calls "the white underclass" where he postulates that most working class whites with a high school education are never going to get out of the working class and into the middle class because the quality of the American high school diploma today is not that great compared to other nations. Here's a white conservative making the case for better education, and the de facto case for more spending, and you aren't going to get better education by cutting teachers and taking away music, arts, sports, debate club, etc. That writer's name is Charles Murray, but I could only get a snippet from Time's website. If you're a TIME subscriber you can read it for free.
I think we've been selling kids short for some time. Our math and science scores are so bad (38th in the world?) that Exxon-Mobil is concerned enough to start funding efforts to improve results. The situation screams for a solution, and it may not cost all that much, but it's going to cost something, and we need to step up to the plate.
Last night I almost replied to one of the posts with words to the effect that the current deluge of rain is going to highlight our lack of a solution to storm-water runoff. Sure enough, on the 10PM news last night were stories of drainage problems, and most likely more to come. I'm appalled that this city has no program for that critical piece of city infrastructure. A solution is going to cost money, else we'll see more collapses, or near collapses like a few years ago when a bridge almost collapsed into Sand Creek. When are we going to step up on behalf of our own city? Pointing out the failures or crooked deals of prior pols is not going to resolve our issues, re-electing the same crooked pols is lunacy - but this city does it often.
So if someone wants to write stupid crap like "go ahead and write a check, donate all you want" then I'll do that if the writers of that childish crap set up a legal program to give me an extra vote for every ten bucks I donate. Those of us who think "country first," not "party first" or "race first," will have the issue fixed in a few years, and a full slate of Democrats and Independents running this city since repeated election of GOP politicians has left us holding the bag on many issues....but the developers are happy.
And yes, I hear Bob's complaint about the hospital CEO payoff, etc, and I agree that those examples SUCK. However, even in the most efficient governments, even in the most overwhelmingly GOP governments, WE still get stupidity and sweetheart deals, etc, like that damned USOC deal that GOP Mayor Rivera pulled. So what do we do? Do we throw out the baby with the bath water? Do we screw over the kids and degrade their schooling, pools and parks? Do we take public transit away from the working poor? Do we fire cops and turn off our street lights to make it easier for the criminal element? IMO that's NOT smart, but that's what the majority here have caused.
I've made the case before that the city should run the Malcolm Baldrige criteria against city functions and offices to find way to improve performance and save money. No one cares, all they want to do is post useless bumper sticker slogans and rant like spoiled brats.
And who's calling names/angry rants here..."stupid" and "childish"? Not me...
So here's the deal...nobody is going to change anybody's opinion here. I realize that. There's extreme examples on both sides of the issue here. We all choose what supports our cause the best. No biggie...
As for me, I truly believe that the government has gotten too big, wastes too much and has too much power. Government has no business in our personal lives...yes, that includes the bedroom. The more power government has, the more it abuses that power. Politicians on both sides have proven that over and over again. I think we can all agree on that.
What stuns me the most is that more and more people intuitively believe that problems are best solved by government.
If we keep electing politicians who want to spend more money and pass more laws, we won't have fewer problems, we simply end up with more and more of a socialist environment, and end up with a country which is less prosperous and less free.
It's not about just the D's vs. R's...it's about personal responsibility and stopping the insane spending that relies on those who aren't even born yet to pay for getting us out of debt. When we as individuals and families go in debt, we don't spend more. We prioritize and stop spending on things we can't afford. Government is no different.
Does that mean no government? No I fully support a limited, small government...local, state and federal. But not a government that feels they know what is best for me and family, whether it's healthcare, whether I should have a "big" soda or not, or whether or not I can smoke in a private business.
And who's calling names/angry rants here..."stupid" and "childish"? Not me...
Gimme a legal vote for every ten bucks I donate....but of course, in reality, developers will way "out-donate" us and still win every election, leaving us where we now are: screwed, and at each others throats; they know how to play divide and conquer real well. We all want great schools and a wonderful future for young Americans, but they got us at each others throats over the SAME desired outcome. We can't cut our way to greatness and we can't spend like drunk sailors, but right now we can't even pay for what does work, which is great teachers in the classrooms, with minimum overhead.
Don't even get me started on "minimum overhead" when this county has 20+ school districts, each with its own set of admin overhead, rules, advisors, lawyers, etc. IIRC, Phetaroi came from Fairfax County, VA, (where I'm from too), a county that has double the students of ALL our 20 districts together, yet they are one of the FINEST school systems in the nation and do it with ONE school board and one set of rules and one set of overhead. The citizens of Fairfax County are well-educated and ballot items on school bonds always pass by 70% or better in that county. If we want to eliminate the waste of having 20 times the number of school boards, overhead, bus systems, rules, lawyers, etc, then we need to get serious and demand a streamlining of districts which IIRC is in the state's realm. So far, no one has lifted a finger to seek these savings....but they run out and put silly bumper stickers on their cars.... Of course, if the people of this city and El Paso County want their kids to be full members of that "white underclass" which I mentioned earlier, all they have to do is keep on doing nothing, and keep putting those anti-tax bumper stickers on their cars to show everyone just how "tough" they are on taxes.
I'm still waiting for the tax and government haters to meet us "good government" types to demand, and succeed, at performing a citizens audit of the city budget, expenditures and business processes to find all this waste that they claim is their rationalization for their endless complaints about "waste" and their refusal to vote in favor of any tax increase. I can play in that audit arena just fine, BTDT.
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Gimme a legal vote for every ten bucks I donate....but of course, in reality, developers will way "out-donate" us and still win every election, leaving us where we now are: screwed, and at each others throats; they know how to play divide and conquer real well. We all want great schools and a wonderful future for young Americans, but they got us at each others throats over the SAME desired outcome. We can't cut our way to greatness and we can't spend like drunk sailors, but right now we can't even pay for what does work, which is great teachers in the classrooms, with minimum overhead.
Don't even get me started on "minimum overhead" when this county has 20+ school districts, each with its own set of admin overhead, rules, advisors, lawyers, etc. IIRC, Phetaroi came from Fairfax County, VA, (where I'm from too), a county that has double the students of ALL our 20 districts together, yet they are one of the FINEST school systems in the nation and do it with ONE school board and one set of rules and one set of overhead. The citizens of Fairfax County are well-educated and ballot items on school bonds always pass by 70% or better in that county. If we want to eliminate the waste of having 20 times the number of school boards, overhead, bus systems, rules, lawyers, etc, then we need to get serious and demand a streamlining of districts which IIRC is in the state's realm. So far, no one has lifted a finger to seek these savings....but they run out and put silly bumper stickers on their cars.... Of course, if the people of this city and El Paso County want their kids to be full members of that "white underclass" which I mentioned earlier, all they have to do is keep on doing nothing, and keep putting those anti-tax bumper stickers on their cars to show everyone just how "tough" they are on taxes.
I'm still waiting for the tax and government haters to meet us "good government" types to demand, and succeed, at performing a citizens audit of the city budget, expenditures and business processes to find all this waste that they claim is their rationalization for their endless complaints about "waste" and their refusal to vote in favor of any tax increase. I can play in that audit arena just fine, BTDT.
Excellent points, I must say.
You're well aware that the Supreme Court ruled that $ is free speech...people can choose to donate as much as they want...individuals, developers, unions, companies, etc. If we, as a community don't like developers continuing to build out, then we as a community need to change the rules. Let 'em donate, but don't continue to constantly build. Many cities have smart growth policies and severely limit growth. Maybe we should slow growth and focus on investing from the heart of the city outward.
I agree with you on too many school districts and too much overhead. But I do slightly disagree with you on your viewpoint on raising taxes for schools. Money alone isn't the answer...I came from a very poor farming community in Wisconsin. Very little money but great education system...why? Because of parental involvement, excellent teachers and discipline in the schools. The amount spent per student in a lot of our rural schools is way less than most other areas, yet the education is better and more go on to college.
And I agree with open books for all levels of government, including HR 459 (Federal Reserve Transparency Act).
We can get money for the classrooms by merging school districts and apply the savings to the classrooms. We can squeeze that money out of the saving without raising taxes. Over the past few years we've seen such follies with the D49 school board that it rivals Bob's example of the hospital CEO payoff; that is one school district that urgently needs to be merged into one that is well-run.
Meanwhile, I really want to see the storm-water runoff issue fixed. The mayor thinks he might have "utilities" build it into their water/sewage rate structure to pay for it. I'm okay with that, but I want to see the dollar figures involved, the prioritized plan of action, and the results made very public as we proceed.
We can call a rate increase a tax increase if we want to, but job one is getting the job done to ensure public safety and the soundness of our infrastructure. Without solid infrastructure we have little chance of attracting jobs and employers to our city.
We can argue semantics later about whether it's a rate increase or tax increase, right after we settle how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
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I like Mike's example of Fairfax county. Having lived near Olympia, WA in a town called Lacey (which is considered "nice" but has a lot of income variance) I have seen there how people who are willing to shell out for it, are rewarded with certain benefits. There is no state tax in WA, but there are sales taxes and property taxes are high. So are property values, respectively, they are on par with areas of the East coast like VA, maybe higher. The school, despite getting sales tax levies to pass, was budget strapped. I guess the Federal dollars got cut or something. I don't know. But guess what? They had dedicated teachers who made tremendous personal sacrifices to keep arts and music alive, they had band and orchestra teachers who would drive all over the district and teach at several schools in a single day. It was either that, or cut the program for the 5th graders. To this day, 5th graders can be in band or orchestra every single day. And those kids perform far more frequently than my son's orchestra class does in Widefield, and they perform better.
If I had my way, a short laundry list of things in schools would be:
1. After school programs with transportation. They could make it cost money, but subsidize it somehow for those who qualify (because I do believe that even poor kids should have opportunities.) A variety of programs.
2. Foreign language programs beginning in Kindergarten.
3. Serious arts and music starting at younger ages.
Unfortunately, my priorities are considered frivolous by the educational system, all too often. They are too busy teaching my kid about how McDonald's food is so unhealthy and unnatural that it won't even mold if left out for six months or something. Great. Now my kid is freaked out by french fries.
We can get money for the classrooms by merging school districts and apply the savings to the classrooms. We can squeeze that money out of the saving without raising taxes. Over the past few years we've seen such follies with the D49 school board that it rivals Bob's example of the hospital CEO payoff; that is one school district that urgently needs to be merged into one that is well-run.
Meanwhile, I really want to see the storm-water runoff issue fixed. The mayor thinks he might have "utilities" build it into their water/sewage rate structure to pay for it. I'm okay with that, but I want to see the dollar figures involved, the prioritized plan of action, and the results made very public as we proceed.
We can call a rate increase a tax increase if we want to, but job one is getting the job done to ensure public safety and the soundness of our infrastructure. Without solid infrastructure we have little chance of attracting jobs and employers to our city.
We can argue semantics later about whether it's a rate increase or tax increase, right after we settle how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.
I like Mike's example of Fairfax county. Having lived near Olympia, WA in a town called Lacey (which is considered "nice" but has a lot of income variance) I have seen there how people who are willing to shell out for it, are rewarded with certain benefits. There is no state tax in WA, but there are sales taxes and property taxes are high. So are property values, respectively, they are on par with areas of the East coast like VA, maybe higher. The school, despite getting sales tax levies to pass, was budget strapped. I guess the Federal dollars got cut or something. I don't know. But guess what? They had dedicated teachers who made tremendous personal sacrifices to keep arts and music alive, they had band and orchestra teachers who would drive all over the district and teach at several schools in a single day. It was either that, or cut the program for the 5th graders. To this day, 5th graders can be in band or orchestra every single day. And those kids perform far more frequently than my son's orchestra class does in Widefield, and they perform better.
If I had my way, a short laundry list of things in schools would be:
1. After school programs with transportation. They could make it cost money, but subsidize it somehow for those who qualify (because I do believe that even poor kids should have opportunities.) A variety of programs.
2. Foreign language programs beginning in Kindergarten.
3. Serious arts and music starting at younger ages.
Unfortunately, my priorities are considered frivolous by the educational system, all too often. They are too busy teaching my kid about how McDonald's food is so unhealthy and unnatural that it won't even mold if left out for six months or something. Great. Now my kid is freaked out by french fries.
Agree, especially #3. Unfortunately the arts are cut far more than any other educational program. I'm all for more focus on the arts, math, science, english and PE. Less on things parents are responsible for...like eating! Also bring back more discipline to the schools...teachers have little authority, compared to 30 years ago.
If we keep electing politicians who want to spend more money and pass more laws, we won't have fewer problems, we simply end up with more and more of a socialist environment, and end up with a country which is less prosperous and less free.
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Yet here in lies the problem, this just isn't true. There are dozens of countries much, much more "socialist" than our country that are doing better than us in many areas. Leaving everything to the private sector is not that answer. Take a look at higher education today and tell me how well all those for profit college are educating adults. In many "socialist" countries this isn't an issue, higher education is paid for. Yes they pay more taxes and yes they get a lot more services for them. The thing with most of these "socialist" countries is that they're really not different from the US. If you have the money you can still not use the government services and buy your own health care/education/etc.
I don't really understand how people can argue "we have a spending problem and not an income one" when almost every category of taxpayer today has one of the lowest rates of taxation in the last 50 years.
Not to mention the fact that if you gut all the government programs you are implying you're going to kill thousands and thousands of jobs into an already anemic employment economy. I'm all for cutting wasteful spending, but almost every thing that government spends money on is important to someone (it just may not be you), and most of the time it is providing jobs for someone in your community.
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