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Old 01-07-2014, 08:58 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,767,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mollygee View Post

How about better bus service....City of Champions, we need to enjoy what we have while building for the future!
Champions generally don't ride a bus subsidized by tax dollars. We have thoroughly destroyed any attempts to force bus service onto those that don't want it, and I think we will continue to succeed. I'm not getting stuck behind a bus

PS. I'm sure as heck not paying taxes to fund that bus either

PPS. I love this city.

Last edited by lurtsman; 01-07-2014 at 09:08 AM..
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Old 01-07-2014, 10:23 PM
 
878 posts, read 936,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
Champions generally don't ride a bus subsidized by tax dollars. We have thoroughly destroyed any attempts to force bus service onto those that don't want it, and I think we will continue to succeed. I'm not getting stuck behind a bus

PS. I'm sure as heck not paying taxes to fund that bus either

PPS. I love this city.
You also have the second highest unemployment rate in the state behind Pueblo. If one base closes, Colorado Springs becomes the new Pueblo, the city that everyone laughs at.

Gub'mint cheese only goes so far.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:24 AM
 
3,493 posts, read 4,767,577 times
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There are only five cities here with meaningful amounts of population. (Denver, CS, FC, Pueblo, and GJ) When scored out of 5, being "second highest in unemployment" doesn't mean all that much.

I don't think I understand your point. Are you suggesting that if we paid more taxes it would mean we were less dependent on "Gub'min cheese"? I believe our high unemployment rate will be naturally persisting as the spectacular weather draws people to Colorado. If you don't have a job dictating where you live, wouldn't you choose the nicer place? That said, myself and the four people I know that have moved here in the last two years were all able to find a work, and the level of difficulty of finding reasonable jobs was significantly lower here than in the Midwest.

PS. My wife and I selected this city after an intensive country wide search. Given that we are both very capable of finding jobs, the unemployment rate did not crack our top 10 most important criteria in choosing a city. I imagine many other people may relocate here with similar priorities. My field has dramatically more opportunities on the east coast, but I have declined any attempt from recruiters that admit they are only hiring for those cities.

So yes, we have unemployment. It happens. There is unemployment insurance to help people with the transition to new jobs, and there is savings to help meet the needs that UI can't cover.
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Old 01-09-2014, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,247 posts, read 6,517,925 times
Reputation: 18418
Quote:
Originally Posted by lurtsman View Post
There are only five cities here with meaningful amounts of population. (Denver, CS, FC, Pueblo, and GJ) When scored out of 5, being "second highest in unemployment" doesn't mean all that much.

I don't think I understand your point. Are you suggesting that if we paid more taxes it would mean we were less dependent on "Gub'min cheese"? I believe our high unemployment rate will be naturally persisting as the spectacular weather draws people to Colorado. If you don't have a job dictating where you live, wouldn't you choose the nicer place? That said, myself and the four people I know that have moved here in the last two years were all able to find a work, and the level of difficulty of finding reasonable jobs was significantly lower here than in the Midwest.
I think the implication was that military jobs, particularly to the extent that they dominate CoS, are the equivalent of gov't cheese. I've got a friend who equates the military to another kind of a welfare program. And he's kind of right, except that the military does it right by making the recipients actually WORK. If only every "cheese" program did so.

However, if a base closed, a majority of its soldiers wouldn't simply be cast adrift in the local area, since the military tends to take care of these folks by either sending them elsewhere or (if separating them from service) sending them back to wherever they came from. The poster's understanding of how that works was somewhat imperfect. The point that this city is highly tied up in its military population is valid however.

All of this however is quite off-topic. I believe we were talking about another stadium or something...?

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Old 01-11-2014, 05:12 PM
 
878 posts, read 936,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
I think the implication was that military jobs, particularly to the extent that they dominate CoS, are the equivalent of gov't cheese. I've got a friend who equates the military to another kind of a welfare program. And he's kind of right, except that the military does it right by making the recipients actually WORK. If only every "cheese" program did so.
Sure, the military makes people work and also makes a lot of work for millions of contractors that provide services to the military in possibly the most inefficient way possible. The sheer amount of money the DoD spends in the Springs on contractors provides a huge boost to the local economy and any large reduction in that would be catastrophic to the area. Peterson and Shriever are swimming with contractors thanks to their roles as being major centers for space and missile defense operations. If the US decides that BMD is not a vital national interest than that fountain is going to dry up quick.

Quote:
However, if a base closed, a majority of its soldiers wouldn't simply be cast adrift in the local area, since the military tends to take care of these folks by either sending them elsewhere or (if separating them from service) sending them back to wherever they came from. The poster's understanding of how that works was somewhat imperfect. The point that this city is highly tied up in its military population is valid however.
Really? That's how it works? I thought that servicemembers and strap-hangers were given a pink slip and just let go.

Contractors and the employees of the direct and indirect industries that rely on military expenditures on the other hand.....


My point in all of this is that Colorado Springs has become very reliant on federal government expenditures and the local economy is not as diversified as it once was and is very vulnerable to future reductions in federal spending. Computer hardware manufacturing is greatly diminished, resource extraction is gone, and federal spending now makes up over 1/3 of local GDP with the rest consisting of FIRE industries. This City of Champions proposal is one of the few efforts that the city has made to strengthen other local industries (education and tourism) and provide for some possible diversification.
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Old 01-11-2014, 06:27 PM
 
5,073 posts, read 6,806,205 times
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IMHO this has always been a military town since the late 1940's, and it has always been a boom and bust economy. The attempt at a tech economy starting in the 80's or so never really took hold but the boom years made it look a little better - however, there is a nice sector holding on. I don't see how anything has changed from the perspective of someone with a long 8-generation family history here in that sense. It's just gotten a lot more populated.
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Old 01-13-2014, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,247 posts, read 6,517,925 times
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True enough about the contractors. But I think that most of those folks are skilled enough that they'd land on their feet if the federal rug were pulled out from under them, and a certain percentage of the ones making good money would probably plan for separation and relocate. Also I'd bet there would be some severence pay involved for certain situations, which would help them transition to their next thing.

Sure, it'd reduce our local economy, population, people working here and all that sort of thing. But I'm saying I don't think there would be an instant and massive burden of unemployed and desperate folks landing in our collective lap here. It'd work out.

It is however a NATIONAL issue of great concern to me that we as Americans really don't produce like we used to. We've got a dollar backed by nothing but (theoretically) our production, goods, services, and resources...and here we are not making enough of anything to remotely compete with many other nations globally. It's troubling. It does not bode well. Those who earn money doing nothing of real value contribute to the inflation of this economic bubble and its eventual collapse, and the federal government is highly guilty of waste in this regard. It fills me with a hunger to flee my cubicle and go make actual physical THINGS in my garage to sell to people, as a simple instinctive response to the concept.

(Maybe that's just the family carpentry business on my Dad's side talking though. Hereditary woodworking. lol)
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Old 03-19-2014, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Powers/Dublin
217 posts, read 635,392 times
Reputation: 122
Default I hate this City for Champions!

I'm surprised this isn't discussed more here. I don't know about all the details, I don't need to. Upfront I don't think all of it is a good idea. The stadium is wrong! None of the plan sounds like it will increase tourism in Colorado Springs.
  • Visitor's center for the Air Force Academy
  • A sports medicine center at UCCS
  • An Olympic museum
  • A new sport and events center in downtown Colorado Springs
Ugh! Why these ideas? Where did these come from? My biggest concern isn't even the funding. I just don't think these are the right improvements. There are so many other better ideas to improve Colorado Springs. If it was meaningful improvements I could maybe get behind some funding to taxpayers. But, it's just all wrong!!!

I would rather have an improved World Arena and/or better venue (like Red Rocks) for big name concerts, not a new Sky Sox stadium! The stadium idea is ridiculous! Sky Sox if fine where it is, just improve up that. The World Arena is fine where it is, just update it! Perhaps add a venue for other events, but it should be unique.

I would rather see Science and Technology museum and Children's museum, not a new Olympics Museum or AF Center.

Downtown Partnership
Colorado Springs Science Center Project -
Pikes Peak Children's Museum - Home
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
553 posts, read 1,424,545 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kristie73 View Post
None of the plan sounds like it will increase tourism in Colorado Springs.
  • Visitor's center for the Air Force Academy
  • A sports medicine center at UCCS
  • An Olympic museum
  • A new sport and events center in downtown Colorado Springs
Ugh! Why these ideas? Where did these come from?
As for where they came from, the City Fathers have visited places like Portland and Oklahoma City, where successful revitalization efforts have taken place, and tried to tailor those successes to our fair city.
  • The Air Force Academy is a magnet for out-of-town visitors. The Cadet Chapel has been the state's highest-drawing man-made attraction for decades. Yes, there's a Visitor's Center on campus, but it's not particularly impressive, and is truthfully a destination only to lure visitors to the gift shop. The long-and-short of it is that the Academy will draw visitors. Always has. If the City can capitalize on those visits...great.
  • I remain a bit perplexed on the sports medicine center. I guess the goal here is attracting visitors from out of town, rather than tourists. If we had a world-class sports medicine facility, I would think it would attract athletes (and their families) who would need to take advantage of their services. How many visitors does Rochester, MN get per year simply because of the Mayo Clinic?
  • Cooperstown, NY, is a village of about 2,000 people, yet it attracts over 300,000 visitors per year simply because of the presence of the Baseball Hall of Fame. Combined with the Olympic Training Center, might an Olympics Museum and Hall of Fame not make Colorado Springs a destination for visitors who are interested in the Olympics and their history?
  • I'm on the fence about the sports and events center. But, many cities have successfully revitalized their downtown areas with similar venues. Consider LoDo before Coors Field was built.




Quote:
My biggest concern isn't even the funding. I just don't think these are the right improvements. There are so many other better ideas to improve Colorado Springs. If it was meaningful improvements I could maybe get behind some funding to taxpayers. But, it's just all wrong!!!
Like what? The goal was to present a plan to the State that would attract visitors from outside CO. Taking advantage of the US Olympic Committee's HQ and the Air Force Academy, I think, fit the goal very well.

Quote:
I would rather have an improved World Arena and/or better venue (like Red Rocks) for big name concerts, not a new Sky Sox stadium! The stadium idea is ridiculous! Sky Sox if fine where it is, just improve up that. The World Arena is fine where it is, just update it! Perhaps add a venue for other events, but it should be unique.
While these would be nice enhancements, I'm not sure they'd attract out-of-state visitors.

Quote:
I would rather see Science and Technology museum and Children's museum, not a new Olympics Museum or AF Center.
Again, these would be nice to have, but there are dozens and dozens of Science Museums and Childrens Museums scattered around the country, and no one is making a trip to some city solely because there's a nice Children's Museum. These are attractions that your visitors might take advantage of after they've settled on coming to your destination. But, if the only improvements you made to Colorado Springs were a concert venue and a Children's Museum, you're not going to see any increase in occupancy rates in local hotels. An Olympics Hall of Fame and an expanded USAFA Visitor's Center just might.
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Old 03-19-2014, 02:51 PM
 
Location: Where the mountains touch the sky
581 posts, read 685,694 times
Reputation: 912
Quote:
Originally Posted by kristie73 View Post
I'm surprised this isn't discussed more here. I don't know about all the details, I don't need to.
I would rather have an improved World Arena and/or better venue (like Red Rocks) for big name concerts, not a new Sky Sox stadium! The stadium idea is ridiculous! Sky Sox if fine where it is, just improve up that. The World Arena is fine where it is, just update it! Perhaps add a venue for other events, but it should be unique.
For clarification sake, a new Sky Sox stadium is not in the City for Champions plan/proposal. From their official page (Colorado Sports & Event Center | CITY FOR CHAMPIONS):

"City for Champions has worked with the leadership of the United States Olympic Committee, Colorado Springs Sports Corporation, local National Governing Bodies including USA Wrestling, USA Swimming, USA Volleyball, USA Cycling, other sporting teams and organizations to enhance the facility offerings of the Downtown Stadium and Event Center to become the Colorado Sports and Event Center. In addition to the 10,000 seat outdoor venue, the 140,000 SF indoor facility will accommodate six basketball court, 3,000 spectators and include a grand entry foyer with direct access to Champions Plaza, concessions, restrooms, locker rooms, training and recovery rooms, press and media rooms, and storage. Many types of sport events will include Olympic Time Trials, Qualifiers, Playoffs and World Championship events."
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