Coal availability (Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Trinidad: to buy, live, costs)

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by awoods2

A couple of things. 1) 55-65 trains a day is what one of the big two (UP and BNSF) ship. So depending on the day between 100 and 130 load coal trains come out of the Powder River Basin of Wyoming. Unit train can be up to 18000 tons of coal. (150 cars X 120 tons of coal per car). Anyway a lot of coal.
2)Wyoming coal is a lot different than eastern coal. There are a lot of different types of coal. Do a lot of research find out what type is best, and what types will work.
I will talk to some people, I remeber the masons we had on some projects in the Springs used coal to keep there sand pile from freezeing. I will have to see where they got it.

Adam

I just was stating rough numbers. I spent a lot of years tracking Colorado and Wyoming coal production as part of my work. You're right, Powder River Basin (PRB) coal is low-sulfur, medium/high BTU, high-moisture, high-ash coal. I competes well because it is cheap to mine, is plentiful, and because numerous power plants have specifically been designed to burn it.

Most Colorado coal (but by no means all) is underground mined and is much more expensive to produce. It is high BTU, low sulfur, low moisture, and low ash. It is a superior fuel to mix with high-sulfur coal to burn in older power plants to keep them in EPA compliance without having to add additional scrubbers, etc. For that reason, Colorado coal is often referred to as "compliance coal." Also, many people, including a lot of Coloradans, don't know that Colorado used to be the second highest (to Pennsylvania) producer of anthracite coal. Many mines around Crested Butte produced anthracite, but have been gone for many years. The last producer of anthracite in the state was the Mid-Continent mine near Redstone. It closed a few years ago, mostly because of economics, but also because it had a troubling reputation among miners because of its very "gassy" coal seam--a risky type to mine safely.

Wyoming 2006 Coal production: 446,742,000 tons (close to a half-BILLION tons)
Colorado 2006 Coal production: 36,322,000 tons

Figures from Energy Information Administration

If a "typical" Wyoming coal train was assumed to be 15,000 tons, Wyoming's coal production would equate to 81.5 loaded trains per day, 365 days a year for 2006. Of course, the actual train count would be double, because those empty trains have to come back to be reloaded. At any rate, lots of trains, lots of coal.

[hikinmike]

Originally Posted by gregabob

Thanks for the replies-I've found that modern coal stoves,like anything else, are much more efficient and cleaner burning than they were before. Plus I like the idea of using domestic sources of energy to heat my house. I did some research, and Pennsylvania alone has a 200 years supply at current production rates. It's just getting the 'rice' coal to the Springs is the challenge. I'll probably have multifuel capability,depending on the price and availability of different fuels. I like coal because of the very high BTU content per pound. I'm planning on a visit in late January for a taste of winter weather---thanks again!

Moving to the Springs area soon and I too am interested in a stove (or insert) that could burn coal. My wife was stationed in England for 7 years and swears that coal stoves give better heat than wood.

We lived in Carlisle, PA for a spell and knew several people with space heating stoves that burned coal. We used a fire place with an insert. Hardwood was readily available. One supplier we had supplied apple wood from orchard thinnings.

Are there wood burning / particulate discharge restrictions in the Springs area? As we're coming from Florida, I anticipate wanting one room with a stove (or FP insert) to make Winter tolerable for these Southern joints.

[maggielloyd]

Who sells lump coal in Colorado? I have a combo wood burning/coal stove.
I need lump coal. I have tried the internet. I have found a mine called
West Elk in Somerset CO the phone number doesn't seem to work. Does
anyone out there purchase any lump coal if so where did you go to get it and who did you buy it from? Do you have a phone number?

Maggie in Gunnison CO

[jazzlover]

Try JV Coal in Montrose (970-240-9701), North Fork Coal Delivery in Paonia (970-527-4477), or Willow Creek Coal Yard in Delta (970-874-4540). Terror Creek mine in Somerset used to sell retail, but I don't know whether they do, anymore (970-929-5855). A long ways away from Gunnison, but I believe National King Coal in Durango still sells lump coal, too. I don't have a number for them.

Too bad the old mine up by Baldwin isn't around anymore. When I lived in Gunnison years ago ,they supplied most of the coal in Gunnison--and about half the town was still coal-heated.

[not propane]

Originally Posted by gregabob

I'm planning on moving to the Peyton area next year, and was researching different home heating methods. I'd like to use a coal furnace/stove, due to the high cost of propane, and the fact that natural gas is not available at many of the properties I'm looking at. Rice coal is easy to get in Pennsylvania, but how about CS/Peyton? I've done some research online, but haven't found many links to coal dealers in CO. With all the coal mines in CO., I thought I'd have had better luck!

I live in the peyton area, and just became nterested in stoker coal for primary heat. Did you have any luck finding a coal supplier of the proper type coal? My research indicates that coal is used very much in some eastern states, but to ship that coal here is not feasable.

[gregabob]

I haven't researched much lately, but I'm thinking that the transport cost to get 'rice' coal to Peyton (I'm also thinking of moving to that area) may be high. Being somewhat handy, I've been thinking of buying local lump coal in whatever size is available and making a crusher to grind it down to 'rice' size. Those automated coal stoves and furnaces made in Pennsylvania sure look nice! Serious amonts of btu's put out too....I'm going to do some more research and see what it takes to heat with coal. I'm also looking into wind and solar for electric power. There are some powerful windmills out now that can generate power and pump water too. Coal+solar+wind=less $ going overseas. Now if I can just get a bit of land with some mineral rights that has oil deposits.........

[Spincycle]

Being from east coast I know the coal from NEPA (e.g. Jim Thorpe, Wilkes Barre regions) is a slower, cleaner burning hard coal that was used more to heat residential structures versus firing utility boilers.

Can the type of coal that is burned in utility boilers (e.g. Xcel) and transported through CO on those big unit freight trains be used safely and practically for heating residential structures?

I wouldn't mind a small, potbelly coal stove for cooking ham/eggs and coffee in the cold winter AM on weekends.

I saw somewhere on-line photos of a coal train derailment in Littleton last year IIRC. Tons of coal spilled on top of the RTD side of the line and shut it down. I bet some of the locals went there w/cement and litter buckets to load up on coal for use at home fire pits or up in shacks in mountains. I know I would, LMAO.

[jazzlover]

Originally Posted by Spincycle

Being from east coast I know the coal from NEPA (e.g. Jim Thorpe, Wilkes Barre regions) is a slower, cleaner burning hard coal that was used more to heat residential structures versus firing utility boilers.

Can the type of coal that is burned in utility boilers (e.g. Xcel) and transported through CO on those big unit freight trains be used safely and practically for heating residential structures?

I wouldn't mind a small, potbelly coal stove for cooking ham/eggs and coffee in the cold winter AM on weekends.

I saw somewhere on-line photos of a coal train derailment in Littleton last year IIRC. Tons of coal spilled on top of the RTD side of the line and shut it down. I bet some of the locals went there w/cement and litter buckets to load up on coal for use at home fire pits or up in shacks in mountains. I know I would, LMAO.

The coal in NE Pennsylvania is high-quality hard anthracite. Colorado and Wyoming coal is bituminous (except for the now-closed mines that I mentioned earlier).

"Power plant" coal is no different than what is sold as "lump" coal from Colorado mines--power plant coal is just crushed to a much smaller size.

Some modern coal-burning stoves are designed specifically to burn anthracite only. Others will burn either anthracite or bituminous.

As to gathering coal from a train derailment, you would almost certainly be arrested for trespass by the railroad special agents (by the way, the railroad police are the only private security force that have arrest powers). They take a very dim view of trespassers, especially around a major train derailment.

[rzacc]

I am in Lk George, Colo, and was hoping to find a place where I could buy several tons at at time, preferrably directly from the mine. I believe there is a mine around Florence, near Coaldale, in the Canon City area. Also, I have bought coal from Ute Pass Sand on Hwy 67 between Colo Springs and Woodland Park. I use it in the wood burning stove (Englander brand) and it works fine. I don tstoke it full, but keep the temp aroudn where it would be with just wood, and I have had not problems at all.

[SaxLuva]

COflower..............."Coal to heat homes? Not a likely thing. That went by the wayside back in the early 1900s."

Originally Posted by jazzlover

Old-timers will tell you that coal heat was a very "warm" heat. Psychological, probably, but a coal-heated house does seem "cozy." Yes, it's dirty. I worked in a building that had been coal-heated for years, but had been converted to gas probably 20 years before I started to work there. Every time I would dust my office, I would still get soot on the dust rag.

Funny, though, one of my endearing memories of living in Gunnison was the smell of coal smoke on a cold morning, and the musty smell of wet clinkers. People would shake the grates of their furnaces every morning to clean the fire, and would dump the clinkers in the alley to melt the snow there. They worked quite well for that (the city also used them to "sand" the streets). The only bad thing--nobody went barefoot in the alleys or streets in the summer. Walking on clinkers is like walking on broken glass.

We may have to get used to coal again, someday. Long after petroleum and natural gas become scarce and unaffordable, there will still be a lot of coal around . . .

PS--They still make coal furnaces--like this one: Add on Warm Air solid fuel Furnaces (http://www.vogelzang.com/NorsemanFurnaces.htm - broken link)

When I was born we used coal right here in Colorado Springs and I can guarantee it wasn't in the early 1900's. I also used to love the smell of burning coal and even used to eat burnt coal as a child. Guess I was lacking carbon. Coal is dirty, but it plentiful and it's OUR's, not imported.