Increase property tax or sales tax? (Pot Holes and Storm Runoff) (Denver: schools, budget)

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by kristie73

Well obviously our schools, roads, storm water solutions, parks, our transportation system, etc are underfunded, so some how we are going to have to come to together to pay for it. I'd vote increases to property, gas, and sales tax. Equal taxing.

Please keep Colorado 'fair' / need based taxed.

Any need to increase taxes should be specific to project / allocated to users / beneficiaries. (preferably temporary tax)

Crazy to pay for stuff from unrelated funds and resources, and it make politicians less accountable and more apt to spend unwisely (on unrelated pet projects).

Proerty taxes can be a significant burden to the 'retired' and lower income tier residents... don't force them out of Colorado. Balance is essential to healthy communities. Elderly provide LOTS of volunteer labor and benefit, strong revenue (banking and healthcare) and much less burden of services (schools / roads)Be careful what you wish for in property tax increases. Mine went from $800 / yr to $14,400 on same, non-improved property (not in colorado in this instance). Colorado property tax increases took my ranch in the 1970's and 1980s. Just became unreasonable to use the land for ag. Front range Colorado urban counties forced land owners to grow houses, resulting in increased need for resources and services .(but also growing PLENTY of increased tax base valuation for additional revenue... wonder where it all goes) (into the pockets of PAID politicians and their ex-politician buddies and friends who become 'leech' lobbyists)

[Vision67]

Originally Posted by StealthRabbit

Please keep Colorado 'fair' / need based taxed.

Any need to increase taxes should be specific to project / allocated to users / beneficiaries. (preferably temporary tax)

That is a good point. I think people would support some kind of a tax that is strictly focused on solely fixing our roads and infrastructure and nothing else. It should include provisions for strict auditing from an independent accounting firm.

Nobody trusts politicians anymore.

[Jalhop]

Originally Posted by 719inhere

I personally refuse to vote for any tax increase unless they first allow recreational pot stores in Colorado Springs, which would in turn create tax revenue which could be used towards fixing the potholes. It would also be extremely ridiculous to have a property tax increase and not a sales tax increase. If property taxes are increased than only people who own property will see a tax increase, so should the people who's taxes don't go up not get to drive on the roads?

That's a reasonable requirement on the recreational pot.

Keep in mind that renters pay property taxes too, only indirectly. Their landlord pays it directly.

In general I support a fixed percentage of taxes that doesn't increase or decrease for thousands of years. Why should it? We should seek sustainability. Our gov't is fairly new at ~240 years and our civilization is changing rapidly, but there still shouldn't be increases or even decreases more than 1% total in a year. Better to keep taxes at a fixed percentage until it is obvious that percentage is insufficient even with proper management, and then raise it super slowly to find the right percentage without overshooting it.

[StealthRabbit]

Originally Posted by Jalhop

...
Keep in mind that renters pay property taxes too, only indirectly. Their landlord pays it directly.

...

Landlords only WISH they could pass on property taxes, but MARKET rates dictate Rental rates.

The only renters who pay property taxes are NNN renters. I have never had a NNN 'residential' renter (only commercial), residential renters would kick and scream at NNN (paying actual costs for taxes) (and definately be more informed as voters).

[Jalhop]

I'm saying the property tax the landlord pays on the rental property sources from the rent money. In that way renters pay property taxes too, only indirectly via the landlord.

[lurtsman]

Sales / gas tax. The fact we have low property taxes is not a problem to be remedied. We are one of the only cities that offers middle class families the ability to use their homes as a savings account without having a massive tax stamp taken out each year. It still surprises me when people think we should force the property tax up so we can just take the money at gun point from whomever happens to have a nice house. Eventually I may be forced to buy a nice house outside the city and turn my house in the city into a rental so I can pass on the increased property taxes.

Whatever money is raised should be very specifically ear marked and there should be no slush fund that can be moved around. For instance, if they currently spent $100 on roads each year and they wanted to raise another $20 for roads from taxes, then they need to spend $120 on roads. They can not raise $20 for roads, and then reallocate $20 out of the $100 that was going to roads to pay for a different program. Unfortunately, that is what government often does.

A sales tax on luxuries allows people to make an informed decision about if they want to buy that luxury. The difficulty with a general sales tax is that it will hit the poorest residents the hardest. If we need money for the schools, I would really prefer to see the city hand out permits for selling recreational MJ and utilize the tax proceeds. While poor people may overwhelmingly consume the MJ, the prices may be lower than what they were paying to their dealer and if we can get the dealers out of the city, that reduces the strain on the police force.

Another method of generating revenue that I would be perfectly fine with is more tickets. I hear the occasionally *hole driving down powers with his custom noise generating anti-mufflers and can see a great place for the city to raise a couple thousand dollars at a time by issuing tickets for being a public menace. To the extent this decreases their behavior, it also makes the city a more compelling destination for people that pay their taxes and don't create problems.

My personal preference is for non-recurring taxes to be used to cover special projects. For instance, I voted for the measure to improve our storm water system. I'm willing to pay one time fees to cover the costs. However, I trust politicians asking for a handout as much as a junkie in-law. I want to know precisely what the money will be spent on and I won't give them a credit card with my name on it.

Actually, I think a tax on cable TV would be a wonderful option if we are only looking at recurring revenue streams (never going to happen). It would encourage people to do more with their lives.

PS. Sorry Stealth, I have to go with the market on the issue of property taxes being passed onto the renters. It doesn't happen in the first year, but over the span of a few years it happens as the landlords all engage in raising rents. Many landlords even use non-recourse loans. If property taxes were theoretically increased by 10,000% (yes, absurd), the landlords would collect all the rent they could, funnel it out of the company, then let the corporations go into bankruptcy without personal liability. Eventually higher property taxes hit everyone that is not mooching. (Boomerang kids live in their parents house / section 8 recipients may not be significantly impacted)

[BornintheSprings]

Create a roads task force that goes out and performs night construction which will result in less disturbances for commuters. Raise property taxes to pay for this dedicated task force. After this is accomplished I have full confidence our infrastructure problems will be solved.

[phetaroi]

i've lived in the western NYS snow belt, the freezingrain/snow boundary zone in Maryland and Virginia, and often drove through the Pennsylvania mountains even in winter. never have i seen the pothole problem that we have here now.

come on Mr. New Mayor, get your butt in gear.

[shanen]

Originally Posted by phetaroi

come on Mr. New Mayor, get your butt in gear.

Mayor can only do so much with our silly TABOR law and all of the people who vote no towards any tax increase. You can't maintain this kind of sprawl with these low of property taxes. It's up to 'we the people' to fix this.

[BornintheSprings]

Originally Posted by shanen

Mayor can only do so much with our silly TABOR law and all of the people who vote no towards any tax increase. You can't maintain this kind of sprawl with these low of property taxes. It's up to 'we the people' to fix this.

Sadly I believe the majority will always vote against tax increases even if it improved the city infrastructure. This is a failing of democracy sometimes the majority doesn't know what is best for them.