That 18 mile stretch of I-25 from Monument to Castle Rock (Denver: vehicles, rated)

[DrDog]

Originally Posted by SpringsF6B

So we are spending everyone's tax money to help out the privileged few. I say screw the new lane, we can spend this money in other ways which might actually benefit the tax payers who pay. Why on gods green earth would I want to spend my tax dollars to help rich folks? Don't they have enough already?

I've only lived in Colorado few years but I've got to tell you the politicians here are among the most corrupt I've seen. Purposefully misleading ballot issue, the Broadmoor land grab, now toll lanes for the rich.

When I first got here I couldn't understand why voters were dead set against spending money on well - anything. Now I know, no matter what Colorado Springs politicians claim the money is for they are lying.

I have now officially joined the vote no group. I don't care what the vote is for - my vote is no.

While I agree with being against the toll lanes, I don’t have a problem with some tax dollars going to the privileged few. We already see a lot of tax dollars go to The unprivileged few i.e. Medicaid that gives free medical care to those that don’t pay any taxes.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Originally Posted by DrDog

While I agree with being against the toll lanes, I don’t have a problem with some tax dollars going to the privileged few. We already see a lot of tax dollars go to The unprivileged few i.e. Medicaid that gives free medical care to those that don’t pay any taxes.

I agree about Medicaid, but that is a completely different topic that doesn't need to be brought up here. This is not a liberal vs. conservative or a democrat vs. republican debate. This is a topic we should all be united in against the slimy politicians who got this ballot measure passed, and we should all focus on that.

I also like how CDOT is suddenly going to rush this project. I'll bet if it were not toll lanes, they would be taking their time. The quicker they get this done, the faster they get revenue... I can't believe more people are not angry about this sneaky move. As others said, it is basically ballot fraud.

[phetaroi]

A group of 6 of us were having lunch yesterday and this topic came up. About half Republicans and half Democrats. And all 6 were vehemently against using tax money to build toll lanes. Either have all lanes free or let tolls pay for the toll lanes.

[abcdefg567]

There will be 4 lanes...let's just hope that they stick to that, and that it all works out. I'd still rather have a dedicated truck line and truck fee for the companies rather than a toll lane, but hopefully it works out.

[abcdefg567]

"CDOT says the toll lanes are the only way to get the project done fast enough. The permanent, extra lanes will still be added to the outside lanes of I-25, but that will take time while CDOT notifies landowners on either side of the interstate of the expansion." *ETA, it does say that there will be 4 lanes eventually. Thank goodness.

Does that mean that we are getting 4 lanes on each side, just not right away? That's better....but still, something seems just a tiny bit off. Almost like a bit of passive aggressive behavior from CDOT.

[SpringsF6B]

Do you believe anything C-dot says? Remember the ballot with no mention of toll lanes? Then right after the issues pass it suddenly becomes a toll lane...


C-dot has established their moral character.


That 4th lane will never happen. They hope you buy in so that they can get everyone off of their backs. Their plan lies in the hope that as this drags on you will forget the 4th lane promise. If you don't forget, surprise, surprise there just won't be enough money.

[Brill]

Things are bad now, but this stretch is going to be a nightmare during construction.

[Vision67]

I just received an invoice from E-470 Public Highway Authority {what an oxymoron!}

One round trip to DIA from Colorado Springs using E-470 cost me $17.90

I'll admit that at that time, I really needed to get to the airport on time and both I-25 and I-225 were slammed with multiple accidents and the traffic on I-25 approaching E-470 was slogging along at 10 mph.

So I decided to go for the Lexus lane.

There was almost no traffic on E-470. We zipped to the airport at 75 mph. Also, I noticed that they were adding lanes to E-470.

So those ridiculously high tolls do have an upside. They create a two class road system. I guess that's better than doing nothing but I still think a better solution for the present situation is raising the gas tax.

[TCHP]

Reading all of this is amusing.

There are a lot of factors and implications at work here and I wouldn't be surprised if there are any number of them we may not be considering, not know about, nor know how the weighting of individual factors may be considered. I am a little put off by the prospect of a new toll road being installed, but it hardly limits my choice. The entire road is not being converted to a toll road, only the express lanes. I can choose to use them or not and I will be no worse off. Yes, it will make a difference because there will always be a % willing to pay the price for the express lane that will take that traffic away from the standard lanes. We both win. Does it kinda of suck, sure, but honestly, many places have demonstrated that adding 2, 6, or even 8 lanes of traffic flow does not necessarily improve congestion. The ease in travel will attract more customers which will increase the flow until the road is again jammed. I guarantee a large number of land developers were/are watching this before deciding about projects in Cos.

It is no different historically than any other transportation mode we have dealt with. The most valuable (rich if you insist) customers have always been given preferential treatment. Why in the world would any of you think that now, in this political climate, any of that would change? 100 years ago, only the wealthy could afford to own several horses and buggies and the livery and tack necessary to rapidly travel from point A to B at their demand. The masses were dependent upon transit schedules and pricing, which, BTW, were owned by the wealthy and installed to benefit their interests. I doubt you can find any examples of institutions or individuals installing millions of dollars of infrastructure in place for simple altruistic means. Don't want to pay, use standard lanes or Highway 83. Whip up enough furry over the toll lanes and perhaps these free lanes will rise to a new congestion level to prove your point.

CDOT is not local government and deciding to vote no on everything in the future...wow, some of you really have adapted to the Cos anti-tax mentality in short order. Too bad because that is how we've acquired this mess.

The entire interstate highway system was adopted from WW2's socialist Germanys autobahns. It served strategic value to them and later to us. The free and open travel was a by-product, not a primary objective. To complain about a highway expansion as social engineering, what do you think the whole thing originated from? If we are slowly converting to a pay for use model, isn't that truly the more democratic approach to social issues? You use it, you may for it. Don't want to pay, don't use it.

Want to read more info about lane usage, volume and pricing strategies, just google "correlation between tolling and traffic speeds and road capacity" to find more reading that you will want to slog through over the holiday season.

[Mike from back east]

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to TCHP again."

Your post is much better written than any of mine could be, thank you.

As an old fart, I like to pass on some history to younger readers....so let me bore them with some history on the Interstate Highway System (IHS). It came about during the years Eisenhower (Ike) was president, the 1950s. Ike commanded our Armies in Europe in WW-2 and saw the autobahns first hand. He was happy to roll Patton's tanks into Berlin on those roads. But Ike's love of highways went back to WW-I when he took a convoy coast to coast to prove the merits of a mechanized Army. It took them 62 days to make that trip. Look at these "roads" in 1920 Illinois. Good grief!

During WW-2 in Europe, our mechanized Army earned its reputation as "Hell on Wheels" as claimed by the United States Army 2nd Armored Division. An armada of ships disgorged massive amounts of logistical bounty which was dispatched from hectic seaports in Army trucks of the famed Red Ball Express.

My late friend Murphy was part of Patton's Army which used German highways to plunge into Germany, and did it so quickly they outran the maps they had, and Murph was assigned to take a Jeep and rush back to a supply point to get new sets of maps. Along the way he needed to beware of German troops who'd been bypassed by our Army and were now straggling about.

After the war Ike ran for President and was elected by a grateful nation. One of his first priorities was a modern highway system, like autobahns from Germany, made of strong concrete with deliberately planned straight stretches where military aircraft could land in a pinch if they had to. Ike wanted a highway system that could be used to move our military forces from their home stations to ports of embarkation if ever needed. He witnessed the value of mobility in the war and brought it home with him.

So the IHS took shape and is heralded as one of the world's great public works successes. The speed of IHS travel unleashed a leap of productivity as a huge time and cost benefit to move goods and people and is credited with being a major factor in the prosperity of the 1960s. It's the backbone that underlies today's "just in time" (JIT) supply-chain delivery processes and "time-certain" delivery of Priority Mail and UPS parcels.

Since relative completion of the IHS about 40 years ago we've failed to properly maintain it and failed to grow it as our nation has grown. Shame on us for letting our nation rot out from under us. We need to stop bickering about taxes which are way lower now than when we built the IHS. We need to find a tax/spend accountability method that's functionally transparent to assure we adhere to our transport priorities, price the work that's needed, fund it, do it, and get on with life and competing in a global economy.