How do you like the Research Parkway "Improvements"? (Colorado Springs: house, living)

[ketch89]

Just to give you some reality - we rank about 60th in road deaths per 100k residents, right between Lithuania and Uzbekistan. Pretty much every other developed country is safer than the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

[Lightning_Hunter]

Originally Posted by ketch89

Just to give you some reality - we rank about 60th in road deaths per 100k residents, right between Lithuania and Uzbekistan. Pretty much every other developed country is safer than the U.S.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ted_death_rate

How does this help your case for more bike lanes? My whole point was that by adding more bike lanes, you reduce the number of car lanes and increase traffic, henceforth causing more accidents. If anything, your article helps my case. More traffic means more accidents. In the end, I know you are going to try and argue that our traffic will decrease if we add bike lanes all over the city (and there is no way to prove/disprove that), so lets just wait and see what happens on Research as the city grows. I would not be surprised if the city removes the bike lane when the first cyclist is hurt/killed, or when traffic gets unbearable. We will see...

[ketch89]

We have different metrics for success - all you care about is car speed, while I care about safety, environmental impact, public health impact, social ties, livability, and so on.

I know you don't really think faster cars = safer, that's absurd. Slower = safer. Have you even read the city's blurb on the project?

https://www.coloradosprings.gov/rideonresearch

[vnodak]

Wow all I can say is some of these comments are over the top. I moved here from the Seattle area and let me tell you their are a lot of bike lanes---a ton really. Biking is a huge thing there and yes their are bikes being hit by cars, buses, trucks and hit and runs etc. I almost hit one who pulled in front of me. Some ride safely and some do what ever they want, when they want without any regard for the laws. I have been driving on county roads where their have been 25-30 on bikes taking up the whole lane so you have to go way slower than the speed limit as you can not pass them. As I see it some drivers and bikers feel entitled and do what ever they want and risk the life of others and some are very respectful. Same with those on motor cycles. As for me, I do the best I can to be safe and obey traffic laws as the last thing in the world I want is to hit someone even if it is not my fault. The other thing I have noticed is that their are a lot of people who ride bikes on the side walk with out regard for those who are walking and or walking their dog(s). The other day I was walking my dogs and a young boy about 5 yrs was riding down the middle of the street on a bike with training wheels on and a lady was backing out of her driveway slowly and was unable to see him because of parked cars and he was so low to the ground. I screamed at him to stop and he did thankfully so she did not hit him but it was close.(where were his parents) Laws are made to help protect you and a parents job is to teach children how to be safe.Their are a ton of parks and bike trails so why are so many young kids playing in the streets here? My point is the problem is a lot more than than a couple bike lanes.

[Mike from back east]

Tomorrow, Saturday, 08 Oct, there is an event scheduled to have a lot of cyclers use that new lane. The link has all the details.

Excerpt: "...if these lanes are successful, the city would likely add more of them. But if the lanes are shot down, the city would likely be hesitant to install them elsewhere."

[PA2UK]

Originally Posted by ketch89

Forget the kids argument. Do you both honestly think that transportation options aren't needed? Should the government be (essentially) forcing families to own two or more cars just to live? A car is a significant economic burden. If one parent can bike to work, the family can save thousands of dollars per year on transportation.

I don't think anyone is saying we don't want bike lanes. We just don't want bike lanes which take up an entire car lane and reduce the amount of car lanes available because that will increase traffic and make it less safe for cyclists. Honestly, I've never heard of reducing car lanes for any reason - it was a six lane road for a reason and generally, with time, traffic increases, not decreases, and the need for more lanes being added increases, and here they are reducing the lanes? It makes NO sense.

What they should have done was expand the road size to add a bike lane. But of course the trouble with that is more expense, more road works, and they'd have to push the sidewalk further back too. Maybe there wasn't room, or maybe they just didn't want to put all that expense and effort into it... but the solution should NOT be to remove car lanes.

Btw, I was just driving on Research today and saw a family with kids riding their bikes... on the sidewalk.

[JohnCurtisEstes]

I think they actually raised the speed limit a few years ago from 40 to 45 mph too.


Everyone still goes 60 mph on Research.

[ketch89]

Originally Posted by PA2UK

I don't think anyone is saying we don't want bike lanes. We just don't want bike lanes which take up an entire car lane and reduce the amount of car lanes available because that will increase traffic and make it less safe for cyclists. Honestly, I've never heard of reducing car lanes for any reason - it was a six lane road for a reason and generally, with time, traffic increases, not decreases, and the need for more lanes being added increases, and here they are reducing the lanes? It makes NO sense.

What they should have done was expand the road size to add a bike lane. But of course the trouble with that is more expense, more road works, and they'd have to push the sidewalk further back too. Maybe there wasn't room, or maybe they just didn't want to put all that expense and effort into it... but the solution should NOT be to remove car lanes.

Btw, I was just driving on Research today and saw a family with kids riding their bikes... on the sidewalk.

Another person who didn't read the city's website regarding the project, making their own baseless emotional argument. The city studied traffic flow and speeds - 3 lanes on Research is too many and results in excessive, dangerous speed.

[Lightning_Hunter]

Originally Posted by ketch89

We have different metrics for success - all you care about is car speed, while I care about safety, environmental impact, public health impact, social ties, livability, and so on.

I know you don't really think faster cars = safer, that's absurd. Slower = safer. Have you even read the city's blurb on the project?

https://www.coloradosprings.gov/rideonresearch

You put words in my mouth. I don't care about car speed so much as I do about TRAFFIC. There is a big difference between a consistent reduced speed and stop & go traffic. Sitting in traffic for hours at a time is incredibly stressful, AND it increases accidents. Have you ever actually looked where all the accidents occur every day? They occur on roads with more traffic. I know, because my GPS shows me where all the current accidents are, and surprise surprise - they are almost always on roads with fewer lanes and more traffic. Removing lanes will make this worse. I am not arguing about whether or not reduced speed will increase or decrease accidents. I am arguing that traffic will increase accidents. There may not be bad traffic on Research now, but it will come later as the city develops. You want to make things worse by adding bike lanes to roads that already have traffic.

Also, it is only a matter of time before a cyclist is hit on Research. I guarantee it.

[ketch89]

Originally Posted by Lightning_Hunter

Sitting in traffic for hours at a time is incredibly stressful, AND it increases accidents. Have you ever actually looked where all the accidents occur every day? They occur on roads with more traffic. I know, because my GPS shows me where all the current accidents are, and surprise surprise - they are almost always on roads with fewer lanes and more traffic. Removing lanes will make this worse. I am not arguing about whether or not reduced speed will increase or decrease accidents. I am arguing that traffic will increase accidents.

The bold is where we have a misunderstanding. The rate of accidents is unimportant - the rate of DEATH is what's important. When cars are closer together (in traffic), OF COURSE there are more collisions. The difference is, there are FEWER DEATHS in places with slow traffic. You can see this in any list of "cities with the most dangerous roads." Fender benders and other survivable collisions are unimportant - saving lives is what we need to concern ourselves with.

Places where cars move slowly like Boston, San Francisco, New York, etc all have a low risk of death, while places where cars move fast like Houston, Orlando, Phoenix, and Atlanta all have a high risk of death.

Drivers:
https://www.cdc.gov/motorvehiclesafe...litiesmap.html
Pedestrians:
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...king.html?_r=0