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...Some suburbs like Gilbert, Chandler have silky smooth roads. I don't know the funding source but I have always believed in a city or county gas tax. ...
Low property taxes are a Colorado Springs tradition in my opinion but I wouldn't mind the city having a local gas tax and a small increase in the sales tax.
I'm now in Peoria, AZ and the roads here are also blissfully smooth as are most of the roads in the region, like loops 101 and 303.
Raising the sales tax is regressive and hits low income folks the hardest, not to mention tourists. Hypocritical politicians love raising the lodging and rental car tax as that shifts local costs to non-residents. Council votes for a free ride at the expense of others, a proclivity that borders on political cowardice but proves one unintended consequence of TABOR is to let locals off the hook if "free money" can be culled from hapless non residents. This appeases the monied class who really run the amateur city council and it pleases those anti-tax and anti-government voters who've been sold a bill of goods that taxes and government are a waste.
Raising the property tax is the honest way to go as it puts the cost of living squarely on the very people who live there and enjoy the services. I for one am perfectly willing to pay my fair share -- so long as everyone else does too. The vow of poverty under TABOR was just nuts, so in May 2016 we voted with our feet and left COLO SPGS after 11 years.
I pay more property tax but the increase was more than offset by lowering our homeowners insurance from $3700/year down to just $370/year. I prefer to spend my dollars on my local living conditions (which benefits ME) rather than send it to GEICO/Travelers back east. As retirees with no kids we really can just pick up and move, so we did.
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I'm now in Peoria, AZ and the roads here are also blissfully smooth as are most of the roads in the region, like loops 101 and 303.
Raising the sales tax is regressive and hits low income folks the hardest, not to mention tourists. Hypocritical politicians love raising the lodging and rental car tax as that shifts local costs to non-residents. Council votes for a free ride at the expense of others, a proclivity that borders on political cowardice but proves one unintended consequence of TABOR is to let locals off the hook if "free money" can be culled from hapless non residents. This appeases the monied class who really run the amateur city council and it pleases those anti-tax and anti-government voters who've been sold a bill of goods that taxes and government are a waste.
Raising the property tax is the honest way to go as it puts the cost of living squarely on the very people who live there and enjoy the services. I for one am perfectly willing to pay my fair share -- so long as everyone else does too. The vow of poverty under TABOR was just nuts, so in May 2016 we voted with our feet and left COLO SPGS after 11 years.
I pay more property tax but the increase was more than offset by lowering our homeowners insurance from $3700/year down to just $370/year. I prefer to spend my dollars on my local living conditions (which benefits ME) rather than send it to GEICO/Travelers back east. As retirees with no kids we really can just pick up and move, so we did.
Wow Mike, $370 per year for homeowner's insurance is one sweet deal!
How would you compare and contrast the two areas?
I've also considered returning to Arizona. It seems to me the choice is either 5 months of too cold in Colorado or 5 months of too hot in Arizona.
But at least in Arizona, there apparently is no hail and there is nothing to shovel in the wintertime.
It was time for us to get away from climbing stairs, from shoveling snow, from vacuuming 3700 sq ft of carpet, from the hail storms that had us reroof twice (2007 and 2011), from the potholes and from being in a 2nd tier city with a 3rd rate city/county government. I loved COLO SPGS Utilities for their low rates and quick service.
We liked the natural beauty of the area, but the roads are so congested it detracted from the experience and for really good shows we had to drive up I-25 to Denver. Both I-25 to Denver and Hwy 24 to the mountains are grossly under-sized and a huge pain in the neck to deal with....so why bother with the aggravation of it all.
We now have one-level living, lots of tile floors, no stairs, no snow to shovel, no cold to contend with, no slippery roads, no salt-covered cars, no potholes, no high winds, no hail, no forest fires out the back door, and plenty of travel lanes on smooth roads.
A huge new Fry's Marketplace (Kroger) just opened yesterday which is easily the sq ft size of a Costco or Lowe's, has a beer/wine bar, salad bar, cheese shop, beer/wine/liquor sales, hot food to eat in-store cafeteria style, kitchenwares, clothing, etc. Nothing like it in COLO SPGS and probably nothing like it in all of COLO.
Our high insurance rates in COLO SPGS were due to the hail storms that are endemic to the Front Range. The fire danger caused high insurance rates for others, especially for those in Black Forest who live among all that combustible material. Rates for a lot of people went way up after the Black Forest fire as insurance firms jacked up rates, demanded defensible space around homes and/or simply cancelled policies. Here, our home is not built of combustible exterior materials, has a sprinkler system, a firehouse right outside the gate, and we are not in a wooded area -- thus much more affordable insurance. Car insurance went down too since there's no hail here to dent the cars and no cracked windows like most cars get in COLO.
We dealt with the heat just fine. We got a warm welcome to AZ when we arrived on 18 June, the day it hit 120F. I adapted after about two weeks of me falling asleep at 9PM after just one beer where I simply faded away. Now I'm up and at 'em at 7AM and go to midnight. Almost daily I walk a 2-mile loop around the neighborhood and sometimes we see juvenile bobcats walking around our backyard (we do NOT feed them, they just meander through). We've two gyms that are included in our HOA fees as well as gates and guards, tons of community landscaping, two community centers with 50 clubs, pool tables, cooking classes, lecture rooms, Bunco, poker, happy hours, coffee and cafes, bus tours, tennis, pickleball, indoor and outdoor pools, golfing, fire pits, catering of events, etc.
If I had known about TABOR back in 2004, before city-data came along, then I may have come to AZ then, but I'm here now and like it enough to stay. If I were wealthy I'd be in San Francisco or Manhattan but this will do.
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I have to say I do know some Colorado Springs residents when I was talking to them about the city they would complain about the roads causing issues with their cars and then gripe about the property taxes.
I would never want Colorado Springs to be run like a California city. I do think that there are other western states that set a good example.
Arizona and Nevada on roads, Gilbert and Chandler in Arizona have excellent police departments and Salt Lake City for municipal infrastructure.
I do agree that there are certain taxes that could go up a little more.
It would be nice if they would raise the sales tax for CSPD to go from 1.5 to 2 officers per 100,000.
Salt Lake, Denver and Aurora have around 2 per 100,000 residents and Colorado Springs could afford that.
It seems as though there have been many news stories on the lack of officers at CSPD. I did some research and does seem like it is around 1.5 per 100,000 residents, compared to just over 2 per 100,000 in Denver and Salt Lake City.
Some suburbs like Gilbert, Chandler have silky smooth roads. I don't know the funding source but I have always believed in a city or county gas tax. I do know Clark County has a gas tax that is added on to each gallon of gas.
Low property taxes are a Colorado Springs tradition in my opinion but I wouldn't mind the city having a local gas tax and a small increase in the sales tax.
Although I am retired with a limited income, I do agree with you---play more, pay more.
TABOR was voted in long before 2004, IIRC. But it seems like voters only look at RIGHT NOW, not potential future consequences of drastic changes. Not unintended side effects. Not ways in which such changes affect everybody else instead of just their piece of the pie.
It was time for us to get away from climbing stairs, from shoveling snow, from vacuuming 3700 sq ft of carpet, from the hail storms that had us reroof twice (2007 and 2011), from the potholes and from being in a 2nd tier city with a 3rd rate city/county government. I loved COLO SPGS Utilities for their low rates and quick service.
We liked the natural beauty of the area, but the roads are so congested it detracted from the experience and for really good shows we had to drive up I-25 to Denver. Both I-25 to Denver and Hwy 24 to the mountains are grossly under-sized and a huge pain in the neck to deal with....so why bother with the aggravation of it all.
We now have one-level living, lots of tile floors, no stairs, no snow to shovel, no cold to contend with, no slippery roads, no salt-covered cars, no potholes, no high winds, no hail, no forest fires out the back door, and plenty of travel lanes on smooth roads.
A huge new Fry's Marketplace (Kroger) just opened yesterday which is easily the sq ft size of a Costco or Lowe's, has a beer/wine bar, salad bar, cheese shop, beer/wine/liquor sales, hot food to eat in-store cafeteria style, kitchenwares, clothing, etc. Nothing like it in COLO SPGS and probably nothing like it in all of COLO.
Our high insurance rates in COLO SPGS were due to the hail storms that are endemic to the Front Range. The fire danger caused high insurance rates for others, especially for those in Black Forest who live among all that combustible material. Rates for a lot of people went way up after the Black Forest fire as insurance firms jacked up rates, demanded defensible space around homes and/or simply cancelled policies. Here, our home is not built of combustible exterior materials, has a sprinkler system, a firehouse right outside the gate, and we are not in a wooded area -- thus much more affordable insurance. Car insurance went down too since there's no hail here to dent the cars and no cracked windows like most cars get in COLO.
We dealt with the heat just fine. We got a warm welcome to AZ when we arrived on 18 June, the day it hit 120F. I adapted after about two weeks of me falling asleep at 9PM after just one beer where I simply faded away. Now I'm up and at 'em at 7AM and go to midnight. Almost daily I walk a 2-mile loop around the neighborhood and sometimes we see juvenile bobcats walking around our backyard (we do NOT feed them, they just meander through). We've two gyms that are included in our HOA fees as well as gates and guards, tons of community landscaping, two community centers with 50 clubs, pool tables, cooking classes, lecture rooms, Bunco, poker, happy hours, coffee and cafes, bus tours, tennis, pickleball, indoor and outdoor pools, golfing, fire pits, catering of events, etc.
If I had known about TABOR back in 2004, before city-data came along, then I may have come to AZ then, but I'm here now and like it enough to stay. If I were wealthy I'd be in San Francisco or Manhattan but this will do.
Before I moved to COS about 6 years ago, I previously lived in Cambridge MA and before that for several years in New Haven CT. Both college towns, but very different situations.
My property taxes in Cambridge were about $1600/year, comparable to what I'm paying here.... but we really got a lot more in terms of city services. Trash collection and recycling. Snow plowing and sweeping on residential streets. The city repaved the street I lived on in Cambridge and replaced the sidewalks, at no cost to the property owners. We had a great library system and lots of neighborhood parks and playgrounds, and the public school system was highly regarded. Our taxes helped to subsidize the "T", too. On the negative side, houses cost a lot of money there. I sold my 1100sf townhouse for $485K in late 2010 and now Zillow thinks it's worth $750K.
By contrast, I see Zillow now estimates that my former home in New Haven is worth a very affordable $260K, but the property taxes on it are a whopping $8400/year! At the time I lived there in the 1990s, the understanding was that property taxes were high in New Haven proper because all the Yale-owned land downtown was exempt from taxation, but taxes were notably lower in surrounding towns like Hamden. That's no longer the case -- taxes are high everywhere now. And I'm not sure what they're buying. We did have city trash pickup and street plowing, so more than COS, at least.
Anyway, I'd be happy to pay more taxes here in Colorado Springs if we got more services out of it -- everybody complains about the street maintenance but IMO school funding is the most important issue (even though I don't have any kids).
ETA: Cambridge also has a form of tax relief called the "residential exemption" for owner-occupied properties -- the first $N of the property value is completely exempt from taxation, so people who own more expensive homes pay a progressively higher effective tax rate. Currently $N is $315K. The $1600/year figure I quoted above was after applying the exemption.
It was time for us to get away from climbing stairs, from shoveling snow, from vacuuming 3700 sq ft of carpet, from the hail storms that had us reroof twice (2007 and 2011), from the potholes and from being in a 2nd tier city with a 3rd rate city/county government. I loved COLO SPGS Utilities for their low rates and quick service.
We liked the natural beauty of the area, but the roads are so congested it detracted from the experience and for really good shows we had to drive up I-25 to Denver. Both I-25 to Denver and Hwy 24 to the mountains are grossly under-sized and a huge pain in the neck to deal with....so why bother with the aggravation of it all.
We now have one-level living, lots of tile floors, no stairs, no snow to shovel, no cold to contend with, no slippery roads, no salt-covered cars, no potholes, no high winds, no hail, no forest fires out the back door, and plenty of travel lanes on smooth roads.
A huge new Fry's Marketplace (Kroger) just opened yesterday which is easily the sq ft size of a Costco or Lowe's, has a beer/wine bar, salad bar, cheese shop, beer/wine/liquor sales, hot food to eat in-store cafeteria style, kitchenwares, clothing, etc. Nothing like it in COLO SPGS and probably nothing like it in all of COLO.
Our high insurance rates in COLO SPGS were due to the hail storms that are endemic to the Front Range. The fire danger caused high insurance rates for others, especially for those in Black Forest who live among all that combustible material. Rates for a lot of people went way up after the Black Forest fire as insurance firms jacked up rates, demanded defensible space around homes and/or simply cancelled policies. Here, our home is not built of combustible exterior materials, has a sprinkler system, a firehouse right outside the gate, and we are not in a wooded area -- thus much more affordable insurance. Car insurance went down too since there's no hail here to dent the cars and no cracked windows like most cars get in COLO.
We dealt with the heat just fine. We got a warm welcome to AZ when we arrived on 18 June, the day it hit 120F. I adapted after about two weeks of me falling asleep at 9PM after just one beer where I simply faded away. Now I'm up and at 'em at 7AM and go to midnight. Almost daily I walk a 2-mile loop around the neighborhood and sometimes we see juvenile bobcats walking around our backyard (we do NOT feed them, they just meander through). We've two gyms that are included in our HOA fees as well as gates and guards, tons of community landscaping, two community centers with 50 clubs, pool tables, cooking classes, lecture rooms, Bunco, poker, happy hours, coffee and cafes, bus tours, tennis, pickleball, indoor and outdoor pools, golfing, fire pits, catering of events, etc.
If I had known about TABOR back in 2004, before city-data came along, then I may have come to AZ then, but I'm here now and like it enough to stay. If I were wealthy I'd be in San Francisco or Manhattan but this will do.
It's interesting that just as you have moved here to Arizona to the exact community I live in, I am about to move to Colorado Springs. Lol. You tired of the cold. I have tired of the endless heat. The insurance on my house will go up, but I will no longer pay $270/mo in hoa fees that increase 10% a year. I will miss the bobcats, coyotes and havalinas, but deer will be new.
It's interesting that just as you have moved here to Arizona to the exact community I live in, I am about to move to Colorado Springs. Lol. You tired of the cold. I have tired of the endless heat. The insurance on my house will go up, but I will no longer pay $270/mo in hoa fees that increase 10% a year. I will miss the bobcats, coyotes and havalinas, but deer will be new.
You might get bobcats and coyotes here depending on the location of your home in the city. But yep, no havalinas.
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