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Old 03-22-2018, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
2,668 posts, read 1,666,689 times
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I tend to agree. I'd also think that as we increase our ability to identify those under the influence and attach that to health, and traffic, concerns, we will see improved and more accurate reporting. Right now it can be a catch all and the simple fact that tracking this info is relatively new, we will continue to see "increases" in issues from it as we strive to find out what the normal range of these incidents really are.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:04 AM
 
2,302 posts, read 641,753 times
Reputation: 1991
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Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
I tend to agree. I'd also think that as we increase our ability to identify those under the influence and attach that to health, and traffic, concerns, we will see improved and more accurate reporting. Right now it can be a catch all and the simple fact that tracking this info is relatively new, we will continue to see "increases" in issues from it as we strive to find out what the normal range of these incidents really are.
And in the meantime, everyone seems to forget that millions have been using it daily for about 50 years. But since this 50 year old "science experiment" has been going on without a research framework in place around it, all the the data from it is apparently supposed to be ignored.

For example, I have used it daily for 47 years. I am 61 and my health is so good that I have never had nor needed a family doctor. But even if I had someone enter my life in order to document this it would still not matter, the data is invalid.

I am not an anomaly. There are millions like me. It is why I am 100% certain that The War against this plant is causing much, much more damage than the plant itself ever could.

However, because so many hang onto the propaganda and brainwashing of the last 80 years, it is dumbfounding how easy it is for corrupt politicians to keep the public confused.

As long as people are looking for the "increases in issues" you mentioned, the "decreases" in issues will go by unnoticed. For example, there may have been 10,000 careers that were not ruined last year in the legal states because of arrests that never happened. There is no way to count victories like that.

Last edited by Raddo; 03-22-2018 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:29 AM
 
646 posts, read 340,114 times
Reputation: 752
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Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
We could exchange links all day long. There is just as much propaganda put out by the anti-cannabis and prohibitionists nuts as there is reality.

I live in Colorado. I can tell you first-hand that reports of traffic carnage and ER rooms being flooded by pot patients are just about as real as the reports of "scromiting" and "face eating" being caused by marijuana use.
I also live in Colorado, and work in one of those ERís and pot related problems are real.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:48 AM
 
2,302 posts, read 641,753 times
Reputation: 1991
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Originally Posted by DrDog View Post
I also live in Colorado, and work in one of those ER’s and pot related problems are real.
Ok, prove it.

There are numerous ER nurses on these forums, and they confirm the number of pot-related cases, while up initially because of inexperienced users taking too many edibles, were and still are EXTREMELY rare.

Please prove me wrong. But don't do it with links. The link most commonly quoted by prohibitionists is this one:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0504083114.htm

It reports the annual number of visits with a cannabis related diagnostic code or positive for marijuana from a urine drug screen more than quadrupled during the decade, from 146 in 2005 to 639 in 2014.

Please scrutinize those numbers. In order to get the word "quadrupled" into the study it took a 10 year period! Regardless, numbers so small when compared to the total number of ER visits over the same period are statistically insignificant.

639 people? The number of aspirin-related ER visits is probably higher than that! In other words, it is propaganda designed to scare the uninformed with the word "quadrupled".
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:55 AM
 
5,003 posts, read 6,678,903 times
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Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
For example, I have used it daily for 47 years. I am 61 and my health is so good that I have never had nor needed a family doctor. But even if I had someone enter my life in order to document this it would still not matter, the data is invalid.
As a scientist, I can tell you that anecdotes are only anecdotes and they are not science. That is not to discount your personal experience and it is not to say your conclusions or right or wrong, but rather just to explain that if one wants to know something scientifically, anecdotes are not rigorous enough as evidence. A series of anecdotes can lead to a hypothesis, but the hypothesis then must be studied and evaluated using proper procedures - and that often takes quite a bit of time and repetition etc., to reach truly valuable conclusions especially in science that involves human behavior.
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Old 03-22-2018, 09:22 AM
 
2,302 posts, read 641,753 times
Reputation: 1991
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Originally Posted by otowi View Post
As a scientist, I can tell you that anecdotes are only anecdotes and they are not science. That is not to discount your personal experience and it is not to say your conclusions or right or wrong, but rather just to explain that if one wants to know something scientifically, anecdotes are not rigorous enough as evidence. A series of anecdotes can lead to a hypothesis, but the hypothesis then must be studied and evaluated using proper procedures - and that often takes quite a bit of time and repetition etc., to reach truly valuable conclusions especially in science that involves human behavior.
You are exactly right. But in this case, with all the corruption and demonizing of the plant for the last 80 years, the anecdotes need some unusual attention in my opinion.

First, there are millions of these anecdotes, most still locked in the closet because of draconian laws. Second, the power of these millions of anecdotes is needed during this fight to get the plant out of the closet. Only then can science work its magic, because currently the laws are so draconian that they prevent true and honest research of the plant, and only then people will begin to see that cannabis prohibition was one of the biggest and longest-running crimes our government has ever perpetrated on the American people.

Last edited by Raddo; 03-22-2018 at 10:20 AM..
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Old 03-22-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,774 posts, read 37,441,293 times
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Originally Posted by DrDog View Post
I also live in Colorado, and work in one of those ERís and pot related problems are real.
As an employer of CDL drivers...

It is real.

My insurance companies, DOT, customers, vehicle & driver up-time, and employee absences substantiates that for me every day.

For every 'user' ... it is REALLY important to have an extra available driver ($40 / hr actual cost to the business) and $100k semi truck on 'stand-by' when the DOT calls you with a driver or vehicle placed "Out-of-Service" (usually in the boonies).

Also important to have a bucket of excuses for your customers! (your 'trustee' (?) employees will help you come up with many absolutely bizarre excuses).

These excuses are not so useful with your banker.
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Old 03-23-2018, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
2,668 posts, read 1,666,689 times
Reputation: 2913
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
You are exactly right. But in this case, with all the corruption and demonizing of the plant for the last 80 years, the anecdotes need some unusual attention in my opinion.

First, there are millions of these anecdotes, most still locked in the closet because of draconian laws. Second, the power of these millions of anecdotes is needed during this fight to get the plant out of the closet. Only then can science work its magic, because currently the laws are so draconian that they prevent true and honest research of the plant, and only then people will begin to see that cannabis prohibition was one of the biggest and longest-running crimes our government has ever perpetrated on the American people.
Personally, I think the Federal Reserve is a longer running crime perpetrated on the American people than cannabis prohibition. It started in 1913.

I don't disagree that more research is needed. I don't disagree that there are probably a large % of cannabis users who are fully productive, much like a large % alcohol users. I don't disagree that for some people, THC products are a god send. But it also is a drug that we should research, no different than opiods or alcohol, and unfortunately, there is a still a percentage of the population that think because THC impacts them differently than alcohol, they don't need to adhere to established law around its use. I also think as health care professional s and law enforcement learn more, we will see a more normalized reporting, but since it is a new catagory, it is going to be in flux for some time.

Unfortunately for your argument, opportunity costs/saving of people who's live where not isrupted because of legalization is something that is rarely ever captured in any form of research.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:33 PM
 
646 posts, read 340,114 times
Reputation: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
Ok, prove it.

There are numerous ER nurses on these forums, and they confirm the number of pot-related cases, while up initially because of inexperienced users taking too many edibles, were and still are EXTREMELY rare.

Please prove me wrong. But don't do it with links. The link most commonly quoted by prohibitionists is this one:

https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0504083114.htm

It reports the annual number of visits with a cannabis related diagnostic code or positive for marijuana from a urine drug screen more than quadrupled during the decade, from 146 in 2005 to 639 in 2014.

Please scrutinize those numbers. In order to get the word "quadrupled" into the study it took a 10 year period! Regardless, numbers so small when compared to the total number of ER visits over the same period are statistically insignificant.

639 people? The number of aspirin-related ER visits is probably higher than that! In other words, it is propaganda designed to scare the uninformed with the word "quadrupled".
Why do I have to prove anything? You havenít. On at least a weekly basis I take care of marijuana user who is ĒscromitingĒ. Something you imply doesnít exist. Itís real, I see it, itís in the medical literature.
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Old 03-24-2018, 07:37 PM
 
646 posts, read 340,114 times
Reputation: 752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raddo View Post
And in the meantime, everyone seems to forget that millions have been using it daily for about 50 years. But since this 50 year old "science experiment" has been going on without a research framework in place around it, all the the data from it is apparently supposed to be ignored.

For example, I have used it daily for 47 years. I am 61 and my health is so good that I have never had nor needed a family doctor. But even if I had someone enter my life in order to document this it would still not matter, the data is invalid.

I am not an anomaly. There are millions like me. It is why I am 100% certain that The War against this plant is causing much, much more damage than the plant itself ever could.

However, because so many hang onto the propaganda and brainwashing of the last 80 years, it is dumbfounding how easy it is for corrupt politicians to keep the public confused.

As long as people are looking for the "increases in issues" you mentioned, the "decreases" in issues will go by unnoticed. For example, there may have been 10,000 careers that were not ruined last year in the legal states because of arrests that never happened. There is no way to count victories like that.
You realize this sounds like the exact argument an alcoholic makes.
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