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Old 03-14-2018, 02:26 PM
 
608 posts, read 319,980 times
Reputation: 824

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
How about selling it to the city of Manitou for $1

Manitou could then issue municipal bonds to do the repairs and pay for it with pot money taxes.

Get high and go high!
Yes! That's a great idea!

I'd be really bummed if it closed. And mad, at the Broadmoor.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:28 PM
 
794 posts, read 1,492,322 times
Reputation: 1163
One has to admire the enthusiasm people on these forums have for spending other people's money.

My quick and dirty (and only party informed) estimate suggests that total annual revenue from the sale of tickets must be something in the $4 million range. Payroll, maintenance on the buildings, cars, track, and right of way must eat up a very large part of that. To try and amortize "tens of millions" more on top of that may well be insupportable. So they want to study their options.

There is no valid reason why the Broadmoor or any government entity should subsidize joyrides.
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Old 03-14-2018, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,329 posts, read 4,350,986 times
Reputation: 15264
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
One has to admire the enthusiasm people on these forums have for spending other people's money.

My quick and dirty (and only party informed) estimate suggests that total annual revenue from the sale of tickets must be something in the $4 million range. Payroll, maintenance on the buildings, cars, track, and right of way must eat up a very large part of that. To try and amortize "tens of millions" more on top of that may well be insupportable. So they want to study their options.

There is no valid reason why the Broadmoor or any government entity should subsidize joyrides.
Actually, there is.

Attractions like that attract tourists. Go visit Glenwood Springs to see how a group of attractions cause their hotels and restaurants and gift shops to fill each season.

Watch what happens.
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Old 03-14-2018, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Colorado
1,706 posts, read 2,922,123 times
Reputation: 1741
Maybe they'll charge $20 an hour to park like the town of Manitou for the Barr trail access, that should pay for the repairs quick.
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Old 03-15-2018, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
2,668 posts, read 1,668,301 times
Reputation: 2913
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHS79 View Post
Did not know the Broadmoor had their hand in this business also- it will come down to dollars and cents and if it will return a profit on the investments they have to make to the business. Tradition be damned.
Yes, they do. Actually, the Broadmoor, first under Spencer Penrose and then the Tutt family and El Pomar saw themselves as a cornerstone of the community. They added attractions to their portfolio to not only attract visitors, but to be available to guests and to be improve quality of life in the community as a whole. The Cheyenne Mtn Lodge, the zoo tram, the Cheyenne Mtn Zoo, the Shrine, The Ice Palace, Seven Falls, PP&M Cog, even the lake at the hotel were all gems of the community that encourage use by locals. Since being taken over by the Anschutz Group, they have slowly been working themselves into a position of excluding local community members unless they are paying guests. They have divested themselves of some things while greatly improving others, but see themselves as an exclusive entity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by illinoisphotographer View Post
IMHO, it could be replaced with a mini-bus service. While the concept of the train is neat, I much preferred to drive up (or hike!) as you see so much more.
You preference and it could be argued that one way is not any better than another, although the site line is different. However, 300,000 people a year prefer the cog rr over the highway. Even if those people all pile 5 to a car, that is now 60,000 additional vehicles going up the highway. The Broadmoor is effectively pushing attraction maintenance on the city by doing so because the city owns and maintains the Pikes Peak Highway, the Broadmoor owns the railway. That also means there will be a percentage of drivers who are going to wreck or cause havoc and congestion because of their fear of driving. If you think driving habits in COS are bad, put those drivers on the side of a 14,000 mountain with no guardrails and a 3000' drop off. I guarantee there will some who have issues once above timberline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Sic transit gloria mundi...
Indeed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Like many billionaires, the one who owns this attraction will run it into the ground then foist it onto the city or state to own, repair, maintain and operate.
Exactly. This is a distinct difference in the ultra-rich mindset of this century vs the last. The uber rich 100 years used their wealth to improve the communities they derived their wealth from. This century they instead use their money to figure out ways to hoist mundane responsibilities on the community as a whole while demanding 100% ROIs. The thought of an entity being self supporting or returning a small profit while benefiting the community is not a part of the modern lexicon. I can actually picture any one of the investors on Shark Tank saying "Why would I maintain this attraction when I can have someone else pay for the upkeep and I keep the profits."

Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
Well they did 'save' Seven Falls from being closed by making a huge investment in it. I don't like everything about the way they run the place, but I do think it is actually nicer the way they have you park and they shuttle you in and you can walk up the canyon without worrying about being run over - it is a more 'natural' experience now. And some may like or dislike the ziplines that they added - those are no joke! Their prices are actually a dollar less per person than when the Hills last had it before the floods. I kind of miss the tradition of driving up to see the colored falls lights but they did have this year and they were pretty. I'm kind of 'meh' about the restaurant vs. the kitschy gift shop - I had some really good food there but I think it is a bit 'snooty' for the majority of their clientele that are actually visiting the Falls vs. the hotel guests they're trying to cater to there.

So, maybe there is hope for the Cog Railroad. It is quite an institution. I can understand that it may be a huge expense to keep it up, since like everything in this city, maintenance was deferred to the point that results in a huge expense put on the next generation, but I hope people find a way....
I think this may be on point. I'd bet it won't go away. It will be improved and aligned with their 5 Star expectations. There are numerous cog railways in Europe, so they no doubt are looking to these companies for guidance. A big issue with this is a number of these lines are electric, not diesel, so a change in the PP Line to the same power source would be a HUGE expense.

Although they may also include a make over of the depot, a new half way restaurant and shop, and of course it will stop at the new city financed summit house. Prices will likely align with this new 5 star objective too.
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Old 03-15-2018, 09:20 AM
 
20,308 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18082
TCHP wrote: "Exactly. This is a distinct difference in the ultra-rich mindset of this century vs the last. The uber rich 100 years used their wealth to improve the communities they derived their wealth from. This century they instead use their money to figure out ways to hoist mundane responsibilities on the community as a whole while demanding 100% ROIs. The thought of an entity being self supporting or returning a small profit while benefiting the community is not a part of the modern lexicon. I can actually picture any one of the investors on Shark Tank saying "Why would I maintain this attraction when I can have someone else pay for the upkeep and I keep the profits."

Agree. The term I've heard for this is "privatize the profits, socialize the costs." The "game" is for any profits to flow to a few wealthy connected types (or corporations) while costs are heaped onto government / taxpayers.

Back in the day of the robber barons some of them poured their fortunes into good works. One of the best examples is the ruthless steel baron Andrew Carnegie who spent much of his fortune building libraries for the public. So-called "Carnegie Libraries" still abound in the USA and IIRC two are in COLO SPGS, the main library downtown with its stunning interior and I believe one over in OCC.

Bill Gates and Warren Buffet are using their billions for the good of mankind, but many more of our billionaires are truly demonic in what they are pursuing which includes the desire of some to destroy Social Security, Medicare, unions, regulatory structures and public education.

I think an aging Phil Anschutz (78) is ready to divest the cog railway now that it needs an expensive major rebuilding. I'm thinking he will dump it unless he can get a free lunch or sweetheart deal at taxpayer expense. Another reason I suspect may be that very few guests at his Broadmoor resort ever bother to ride the train while at the hotel so why incur the expense of running the attraction. He also has much bigger fish to fry.
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Last edited by Mike from back east; 03-15-2018 at 09:29 AM..
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Old 03-15-2018, 03:38 PM
 
608 posts, read 319,980 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arrby View Post
There is no valid reason why the Broadmoor or any government entity should subsidize joyrides.
Tourism, road safety, local cultural traditions, a few jobs...


I think it's more than just joyrides. It's an asset to the springs, a place that for its natural beauty and history, could have many more.

Broadmoor can go free and clear, but then I think it's something that the city should support. Or at least look at safe alternatives to get up there.
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Old 03-15-2018, 06:21 PM
 
1,368 posts, read 2,453,780 times
Reputation: 1909
Does this mean there will be more parking for barr trail?
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Old 03-16-2018, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Aurora, Colorado
5,373 posts, read 7,659,745 times
Reputation: 4328
Wow, and I was planning to finally go this Summer...
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Old 03-16-2018, 06:32 PM
 
1,245 posts, read 1,631,290 times
Reputation: 1499
Civic pride is not a strong suit of this city as far as I can tell. Maybe once long ago...
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