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Old 04-16-2018, 09:12 AM
 
5,007 posts, read 6,685,971 times
Reputation: 4517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by abcdefg567 View Post
Is the bus system that bad? They're so pretty and purple!
The schedule/routes are just too limited. It would take me about 2 hours to get to work using the city bus routes. Further, the timings of the routes would not allow me to get to work on time - I'd always be an hour late - and I'd have to wait over an hour after the end of my working day to get a route back home which would again take 2 hours.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:10 AM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,255 posts, read 3,954,423 times
Reputation: 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
I don't expect Colorado Springs will ever enthusiastically endorse Public Transit. The city is way too spread out. That makes Public Transportation expensive. It simply costs more than the taxpayers are willing to pay.

Personally, when I am without a car and need a ride I use Uber. That gets an immediate response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
A lifetime of living here I sense that a lot of people look at public transportation not as something that makes you a first class city - such as Denver might have viewed it when investing in light rail, etc. - but rather as something that encourages a lower-class, more impoverished element to live here. i.e. if you need public transportation this city sees you as something undesirable, a drain on the city rather than a productive more wealthy and more attractive citizen.

I certainly don't agree with that and I don't think that view is unanimous but I think that kind of comes with the history of the city's anti-tax rather libertarian economic forays, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
“A developed country is not a place where the poor have cars. It's where the rich use public transportation.”

― Gustavo Petro
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
The schedules for the buses are limited and you can't get anywhere in a reasonable time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
The schedule/routes are just too limited. It would take me about 2 hours to get to work using the city bus routes. Further, the timings of the routes would not allow me to get to work on time - I'd always be an hour late - and I'd have to wait over an hour after the end of my working day to get a route back home which would again take 2 hours.
When I read everyone's comments, I can only shake my head and question why it is that Colorado Springs considers public transit to be the spawn of the devil. Everything you guys said was true of public transit all the way back to when I used to ride the city bus to get to my classes at Palmer High. Except that back then when the earth had barely finished cooling, the population of the Springs was less than 100,000. Oh, and you used to actually be able to catch a train ride up to Denver and back whenever you wanted to make an excursion to the "big city" of Denver.

A city that refuses to implement a workable mass transit system is not going to continue to make it to the top of anyone's "best places to live" list forever.

If I were a young professional, I wouldn't give the Springs the time of day. Jobs in my old field pay more in Denver, it's easier to get around the metro area, the cultural offerings are on par with many a major city located on either of the coasts, etc. When I was first starting out in my career, I sucked it in and stretched my entry level salary to allow me to live and work in a town in Colorado that I loved most - Durango. It seems to me that smart young professionals would suck it in and pay slightly more to live in Denver because the trade-offs are worth it to them.

At this point, the only thing I see that makes COS better to live in than Denver is that the cost of housing is slightly less. And COS is throwing away even this incentive with its stance against affordable housing and all those neighborhoods with an over-developed attitude of NIMBY to the 10th power.

If this were a horse race, I'd put my money on Denver to win by at least a head.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,330 posts, read 4,359,501 times
Reputation: 15291
Boulder has ample Public Transportation.

So does Boston and NYC.

But the rents are not affordable.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:56 AM
 
2,772 posts, read 3,459,975 times
Reputation: 2119
It is better for the poor to be able to get to work, the doctor and shop than not. Some can't leave town or won't take the hint to do so. A city has low wage workers because many want to free themselves of certain tasks (fast food, low-end retail stocking / cashiering, cleaning, childcare, etc.) If the wages are insufficient to sustain those workers / task fulfillers then a subsidy of their transit becomes necessary for them and those using them. Neighbor helping others get to work, etc. can help but is unlikely to be enough.


Making public transit viable / attractive to discretionary users depends on living where limited public transit is and is most efficient for where you want to go and using it. It will never go everywhere and it is unlikely to go to affluent areas if few use it or ever try it once, ever or past youth.


It is ok to want to live where public transit is sketchy or non-existent... if it contributes to living life the way you want it and if you can provide for yourself. If you can't, you should optimize your location as best you can and publicly support public transit and say thanks for it and get your employer and stores and service providers who make money on transactions with you to support it. Is 20% of the economy worth keeping running? I'd think so for bucks and / or altruism.

Last edited by NW Crow; 04-16-2018 at 12:29 PM..
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:24 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,255 posts, read 3,954,423 times
Reputation: 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vision67 View Post
Boulder has ample Public Transportation.

So does Boston and NYC.

But the rents are not affordable.
1) We aren't talking about Boulder.

2) Colorado Springs is following a juggernaut's path to a situation where the rents have become unaffordable and you can't blame that on the purple buses that crawl around a couple of major routes close to downtown.

3) Either way, CS taxpayers are going to pay - you can pay for all the infrastructure improvements to build more new roads and make badly needed repairs to existing ones and most likely still have to deal with the rush hour "parking lot" effect or you can invest in mass transit.

So, you actually LIKE the idea of unaffordable real estate combined with no mass transit? Doesn't sound like a good way to encourage growth in Colorado Springs to me.

Plus, keep in mind that we need to be cutting carbon emissions if we want our planet to remain habitable. Last I checked, the Springs was still on planet earth. Think about it this summer when you are sitting motionless in your car when I-25 becomes one vast parking lot in record breaking heat.
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Old 04-16-2018, 12:53 PM
 
1,246 posts, read 1,632,269 times
Reputation: 1500
[quote]If I were a young professional, I wouldn't give the Springs the time of day.

As a fairly new citizen of COS, I tend to agree. It has so much potential but the spark of creativity and civic pride that makes innovative and practical things happen to make a great city is minimal. Still wondering why that is...
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Old 04-16-2018, 01:55 PM
 
608 posts, read 320,746 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
When I read everyone's comments, I can only shake my head and question why it is that Colorado Springs considers public transit to be the spawn of the devil. Everything you guys said was true of public transit all the way back to when I used to ride the city bus to get to my classes at Palmer High. Except that back then when the earth had barely finished cooling, the population of the Springs was less than 100,000. Oh, and you used to actually be able to catch a train ride up to Denver and back whenever you wanted to make an excursion to the "big city" of Denver.

A city that refuses to implement a workable mass transit system is not going to continue to make it to the top of anyone's "best places to live" list forever.

If I were a young professional, I wouldn't give the Springs the time of day. Jobs in my old field pay more in Denver, it's easier to get around the metro area, the cultural offerings are on par with many a major city located on either of the coasts, etc. When I was first starting out in my career, I sucked it in and stretched my entry level salary to allow me to live and work in a town in Colorado that I loved most - Durango. It seems to me that smart young professionals would suck it in and pay slightly more to live in Denver because the trade-offs are worth it to them.

At this point, the only thing I see that makes COS better to live in than Denver is that the cost of housing is slightly less. And COS is throwing away even this incentive with its stance against affordable housing and all those neighborhoods with an over-developed attitude of NIMBY to the 10th power.

If this were a horse race, I'd put my money on Denver to win by at least a head.
Ugh...the bus system is pretty bad in Denver too and the light rail is expensive. I just checked out the springs schedules and routes and they're pretty comparable.

I too, had to take 2 hours to get to
highschool for a 15 minute drive using the RTD...then 2 hours to get downtown from a not very far at all. Then some nights they didn't run late enough for me to get home after work. It looks like not much has changed.

And it was scary, many times old men would pull up and Terry to get new in their car, or harass me, or there'd be violent acholics or drug addicts.

I bought a $1400 car as soon as I could.

It is less crowded and polluted here, for now. That to me makes it feel less stressful. And we Pikes Peak, and a lot of other attractions that can get crowded, but are generally easy to get to. Plus... cheaper. One can still buy a decent home in a decent area for under $300k...in Denver comparable homes to our $300k ish home are $500k...but there are more jobs and higher pay available.

*Eta, I agree about the young professional thing. As a young family and me not working, Colorado Springs is much more ideal for us and the life we want for the kids...and our budget. I get anxious everytime I have to go back.

If I were 26 and working and didn't have kids....I don't really see the appeal.
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Old 04-16-2018, 07:02 PM
 
653 posts, read 341,644 times
Reputation: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
When I read everyone's comments, I can only shake my head and question why it is that Colorado Springs considers public transit to be the spawn of the devil. Everything you guys said was true of public transit all the way back to when I used to ride the city bus to get to my classes at Palmer High. Except that back then when the earth had barely finished cooling, the population of the Springs was less than 100,000. Oh, and you used to actually be able to catch a train ride up to Denver and back whenever you wanted to make an excursion to the "big city" of Denver.

A city that refuses to implement a workable mass transit system is not going to continue to make it to the top of anyone's "best places to live" list forever.

If I were a young professional, I wouldn't give the Springs the time of day. Jobs in my old field pay more in Denver, it's easier to get around the metro area, the cultural offerings are on par with many a major city located on either of the coasts, etc. When I was first starting out in my career, I sucked it in and stretched my entry level salary to allow me to live and work in a town in Colorado that I loved most - Durango. It seems to me that smart young professionals would suck it in and pay slightly more to live in Denver because the trade-offs are worth it to them.

At this point, the only thing I see that makes COS better to live in than Denver is that the cost of housing is slightly less. And COS is throwing away even this incentive with its stance against affordable housing and all those neighborhoods with an over-developed attitude of NIMBY to the 10th power.

If this were a horse race, I'd put my money on Denver to win by at least a head.
You really think a modern day young professional wants to ride the bus? Lol. And “affordable housing “ has a significant impact on average cost of living? I think not.
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Old 04-16-2018, 09:57 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,255 posts, read 3,954,423 times
Reputation: 9443
Quote:
Originally Posted by orngkat View Post
If I were a young professional, I wouldn't give the Springs the time of day.

As a fairly new citizen of COS, I tend to agree. It has so much potential but the spark of creativity and civic pride that makes innovative and practical things happen to make a great city is minimal. Still wondering why that is...
orngkat has nailed it. Colorado Springs has oodles of potential, but a decidedly conservative population which looks at innovation with suspicion and the smallest tax hike to improve roads and/or education with outright horror. This sort of thinking has left the Springs all too often just spinning its wheels and getting nowhere except more over-crowded.

You couldn't ask for more scenic attractions, great educational facilities like Colorado College and UCCS, an outstanding county-wide library system, an up and coming live entertainment/night scene and more.

Yet so many of the things that go into the making of a great city are lacking. There's no mass transit system to make it easier to get around and cut pollution/climate change. Good luck getting Springs voters to let go of so much as an extra penny in taxes for road improvements, better schools for the region's children, and help getting the ever increasing numbers of homeless people off the streets to name but a few.

If you are wondering why, part of the answer may be in DrDog's post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDog View Post
You really think a modern day young professional wants to ride the bus? Lol. And “affordable housing “ has a significant impact on average cost of living? I think not.
Housing costs are the primary component of the overall cost of living just about everywhere in the US, Colorado Springs included. How can you possibly believe otherwise unless you've been a trust funder or something all your life and never have had to worry about paying the rent.

And nobody much enjoys the experience of coping with the funky bus system in the Springs - be they young and professional or old and (re)tired. But when the Washington DC area first put the new metro system into operation, I was very impressed. At the time, I could easily envision myself getting a cute little place in Arlington and riding into DC to my cool new job as the head of the science collection at the Library of Congress. And there are plenty of other mass transit systems in various US cities that seem to be doing a good job. I think they're a great way to avoid the constant battle with traffic, on-going searches for parking places, and a way of saving on expenses by moth-balling your car during the week.

You seem to be arguing just for the sake of argument Dr. D.
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Old 04-16-2018, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Monument, CO
90 posts, read 100,458 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by NW Crow View Post
Most of the residential growth will go into CS itself or just outside but how much can / will Monument / Palmer Lake take? Fountain? Peyton? Elbert, Larkspur? Ramah? Woodland Park? Pueblo / Pueblo West? Canon City? Who has water? How far will people drive? I'd imagine 300-500,000 more people are coming in or being born there over 20-30 years.


I didn't know Monument was up to about 6,500 people. Do they have lots & water left? 10k will come quick if they do. 20k possible in long-run? Peyton at 320. Hit a thousand in 5-7 years? Fountain at about 28k. Will they go to 40k by 2040? More?


.
Yep and Monument has a couple more phases of The new Forest Lakes subdivision (west on Baptist up on the mountain ) going in. I want to know where the water is coming from and there isn’t an elementary school on the west side. My yard in Monument has been xeriscaped with native plants to use less water and the new law here is no more than 30% grass, but that is still a lot of water. It’s the high desert!!
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