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Old 05-31-2018, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,801 posts, read 1,470,533 times
Reputation: 2906

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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
In simplest terms, they do not want to put in the effort most of us do daily to be productive members of society. Certainly some do want to make this effort, but many others appear to not want to nor care to. I believe many do want a place to live and a job but the struggle with mental or physical ailments may make it difficult to jump through all the bureaucratic hoops for housing. Also subsidized housing tends to favor women with children so for a single homeless person they could be on a waiting list for years.


Criminal records, again this depends as there are companies out there willing to hire people with past records. Comcor works with some of this in that regard, so it certainly possible. It won't get you a secret clearance job, but you can find work with a criminal record. Assuredly it is not impossible just more difficult which is why I favor making it illegal for employers to know your criminal history this in effect creates a double punishment and is a great way to keep the poor down. Now the only exception I could think of where it is pertinent to know your criminal background is working for the government or need to have a security clearance.

At will employment is a fact of life most of us have to deal with regardless of our housing situation. Rules to avoid being fired willy nilly are pretty simple; show up, on time, ready to work, without being chemically altered. There are enough places hiring that if you can do these four things,you can have a job. Minimum wage is $10.20 an hour. That's over $1600 a month, which is not going to get a nice condo, but can get you into through transitional housing. However, this is taxable income and requires you work a steady 40 hrs and adhere to rules. If you make the same $80 a day on a corner in half the time, stinking to high heaven and totally stoned, you can see why they don't want to to work. Yea but you and I both know that employers are stingy and rarely offer 40 hours a week especially for the kinds of starter jobs many of the homeless are likely to get. This would then require a second job and with the subpar public transit system the springs has this creates another barrier to success. Not to mention the sky high rents which in effect are keeping the people attempting to leave homelessness in the cold. The solution to this should rent control based on income its the only fair way to go about it.

Physical disabilities aren't an excuse either. If you can sit/stand on cold/hot concrete for half a day, then you can sit in a chair in an air conditioned office at a call center making phone calls and stand at a hot oil machine dropping fries. I don't know how many disabled people you know but even those tasks may prove to much it may be best to come to terms that a good portion of the homeless may not even be capable of even the most basic jobs. Unlike others I don't want them to starve to death or be stuck in a sort of limbo getting some services but not others. I believe the State has obligation to care for them.

I responded to a few of your points in red. Obviously we have radically different viewpoints on the issue but those are my thoughts.

Last edited by BornintheSprings; 05-31-2018 at 12:55 PM..
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:44 PM
 
5,007 posts, read 6,688,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I responded to a few of your points in red. Obviously we have radically different viewpoints on the issue but those are my thoughts.
One thing I would add/change in your comments is about the criminal history. I think security clearance is one thing, but I would also have concerns about things like hiring someone to be a teacher or daycare worker or senior care worker or nurse etc., if they had a relevant criminal history and we weren't able to know it. Or if someone has a history of stealing from an employer/embezzlement etc., I would think a potential new employer maybe has a right to know that. Or if you're going to work as a driver and you have DUIs on your record or reckless driving etc., would it not be important for people to know before someone hires them and then you go and get in the cab with them to drive you home or encounter them on the road hauling goods to your grocery store?
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,801 posts, read 1,470,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by otowi View Post
One thing I would add/change in your comments is about the criminal history. I think security clearance is one thing, but I would also have concerns about things like hiring someone to be a teacher or daycare worker or senior care worker or nurse etc., if they had a relevant criminal history and we weren't able to know it. Or if someone has a history of stealing from an employer/embezzlement etc., I would think a potential new employer maybe has a right to know that. Or if you're going to work as a driver and you have DUIs on your record or reckless driving etc., would it not be important for people to know before someone hires them and then you go and get in the cab with them to drive you home or encounter them on the road hauling goods to your grocery store?
I could see the teacher position or daycare worker/seniorcare certainly getting screened due to working with the vulnerable elderly or children. However I still think our system keeps criminals reoffending with the background check. They served time in prison why are they still being punished?
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:01 PM
 
5,007 posts, read 6,688,060 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I could see the teacher position or daycare worker/seniorcare certainly getting screened due to working with the vulnerable elderly or children. However I still think our system keeps criminals reoffending with the background check. They served time in prison why are they still being punished?
I do think it shouldn't be as strict as it is, but I don't necessarily see it as punishment to allow an employer to know if a potential employee has a past that suggests a serious risk to the employer such as theft, violence, or a problem directly related to the job like a driving record for a driving job, etc. I think it should be more nuanced than the generic 'have you ever committed a felony' question because I agree with you that not every crime is necessarily relevant to a potential employer. But some are definitely a sign of a potential employees likelihood of being successful on the job.

Kid across the street from me did time for assault on his wife. When he got out, he really struggled to find anyone to hire him for anything. He often had to resort to under the table jobs because he claimed he could not find secure employment with his record. He ended up giving up and he lives with his dad off his dad's retirement income and has for the past decade plus. I 100% agree that he should have been able to find a job - correction - a career - and that the current system is too exclusive and makes it very very hard.

But I also think if I am hiring someone I might want to know if their history suggests he/she is potentially dangerous or high risk for this particular type of employment. How would you feel if you hired a murderer not knowing his/her past and the person then killed another employee? Or if he/she had a record as an embezzler but you weren't allowed to know and the person then robbed your company blind? Yes, someone without a record could do those things, too, but past behavior is the best predictor of future behavior. People naturally want a choice in taking a risk on someone and don't want to feel that important information that could have saved a life of someone they know or saved their business, etc., was kept from them.
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Old 05-31-2018, 03:11 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
2,669 posts, read 1,673,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I responded to a few of your points in red. Obviously we have radically different viewpoints on the issue but those are my thoughts.
Yes we do. Its probably best to just leave it at that.

I am in no way opposed to helping out those that need a hand up to stop the cycle of dependency and become responsible for their own future. We truly need to be cognizant of and willing to help the weakest in our society. I believe there are pieces of this solution that are finally starting to come together in our little city, there are more on the horizon, and I hope they can be successful at addressing our local problems. IMO, convincing the rest of us to avoid the cash hand outs is a great first step and ultimately a necessary part of the fix.
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Old 05-31-2018, 06:31 PM
 
345 posts, read 620,533 times
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You can forget about the courts and the law being able to help, the Federal court in Charlottesville, VA already ruled that it was protected under free speech so the precedent is set. Charlottesville had a terrible problem with panhandling downtown and ever since the ruling it's spread around Virginia.
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Old 06-01-2018, 03:23 AM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,866 posts, read 7,099,726 times
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There is a huge difference between true homelessness and vagrancy. Make no mistake, the vast majority of these bums you see are nothing but vagrants. Mentally ill drunks and drug addicts that chose to live their lives this way.

I have compassion and empathy for the truly homeless, I've nearly been there myself. The difference is I have something called dignity and could never stoop to the level of begging for money on a street corner. I did every menial labor job I could get until I pulled myself up and out.

That's the difference. These people have no shame or dignity. Why bust your ass at a job when you can just stand on a median and count on making $10hr from equally stupid motorists that think they're helping. What really needs to happen is it needs to be citeable offense to give money directly to a panhandler. Once a few people get busted and fined for this, they'll think twice about where and when to give help.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:14 AM
 
608 posts, read 320,967 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
There is a huge difference between true homelessness and vagrancy. Make no mistake, the vast majority of these bums you see are nothing but vagrants. Mentally ill drunks and drug addicts that chose to live their lives this way.

I have compassion and empathy for the truly homeless, I've nearly been there myself. The difference is I have something called dignity and could never stoop to the level of begging for money on a street corner. I did every menial labor job I could get until I pulled myself up and out.

That's the difference. These people have no shame or dignity. Why bust your ass at a job when you can just stand on a median and count on making $10hr from equally stupid motorists that think they're helping. What really needs to happen is it needs to be citeable offense to give money directly to a panhandler. Once a few people get busted and fined for this, they'll think twice about where and when to give help.
There's been a group near the Circle & i25 ramp all week, with their dogs. Not even really holding the sign but just kinda hanging out.

Today I got stuck at the light and noticed the female was pulling up get shirt and her pants, and sticking a needle into her side...I'm guessing her arm veins had collapsed? Maybe this is a diabetic thing? I had a friend, "muscling," get heroin when all her veins were done...ended in sepsis and some other terrible infection.

Either way, these people need help. A free jail/rehab that their pets can join in on too.

I seriously think APS should institutionalize them as ethically as possible until they are better...and let them keep their pets.
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Old 06-01-2018, 10:27 AM
 
783 posts, read 560,445 times
Reputation: 1141
With regards to unable to work because of physical handicaps ... If people had 1/100 the determination of Richie Parker ... Hell, I wish I had 50% of his determination !!!

https://youtu.be/N2Xg-izlI7k
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
2,669 posts, read 1,673,262 times
Reputation: 2913
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
There is a huge difference between true homelessness and vagrancy. Make no mistake, the vast majority of these bums you see are nothing but vagrants. Mentally ill drunks and drug addicts that chose to live their lives this way.

I have compassion and empathy for the truly homeless, I've nearly been there myself. The difference is I have something called dignity and could never stoop to the level of begging for money on a street corner. I did every menial labor job I could get until I pulled myself up and out.

That's the difference. These people have no shame or dignity. Why bust your ass at a job when you can just stand on a median and count on making $10hr from equally stupid motorists that think they're helping. What really needs to happen is it needs to be citeable offense to give money directly to a panhandler. Once a few people get busted and fined for this, they'll think twice about where and when to give help.
This give me an interesting thought....

Don't punish people willing to help. Hold those gaining the money accountable. The ACLU has pushed the issue in court to extrapolate our anti-panhandling laws to be an abridgement of free speech and preventing people from working within their chosen field, ie, panhandling. Instead of issuing citations to people giving them money, why don't we mandate a permit or license to panhandle? Here is my logic, if I use the city streets to run my business, like a hot dog stand, t-shirt vendor, selling sunglasses, etc, I have to get a business permit from the city. If I attend a swap meet, flea market, or other temporary sales function, I have to get a permit. I have to report my income from these activities I generated on public or private property. So, using that logic, why should vagrants be any different. They are employed in their field in public space and in doing so are gaining with unreported income.

Yes, I know it will be difficult to enforce, everything here is. But it is a foundation to build from. It does not abridge their free speech. It allows anyone to do the solicitation. It holds them accountable and that accountability means that like all independent business owners, one must be in complaicne with rules and regulations and manage their income stream and report on it. Failure to do so is now a violation of multiple laws. No license, your are in violation, here's your citation. Did you report your income? The IRS has an issue. Defecating or shooting up in public, that's hazardous waste, here's your fine. Multiple time offenders, hit the road or live in a cell.
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