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Old 08-07-2018, 12:35 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDog View Post
a large number of them are just not interested in working for a living and prefer to get by on whatever handouts they can get.
Thats garbage most want to work they either don't have the skills or the opportunity for employment not to mention the many mentally ill. The only real solution is free housing for chronic homeless individuals if there living situation stabilizes maybe some will find employment. For those that don't I have no problem with the state giving them bare bones apartments better that than having them live outside.
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Old 08-07-2018, 12:51 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18081
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Thats garbage most want to work they either don't have the skills or the opportunity for employment not to mention the many mentally ill. The only real solution is free housing for chronic homeless individuals if there living situation stabilizes maybe some will find employment. For those that don't I have no problem with the state giving them bare bones apartments better that than having them live outside.
Though some will point their fickle finger of shame at you and hiss "socialist" in contempt I suspect the truth is that it may prove more cost effective to society to mass produce some basic dwelling units and line them up like so many shipping containers for the indigent. The mentally ill would be housed in a separate community. Political opposition from NIMBYs, anti-taxxers, and the housing-mortgage industrial complex will be ferocious -- and is why nothing will be done and we'll keep seeing 65 people shot in Chicago every weekend.

The military actually has such things for deployments; during Desert Storm we even shipped a 600 container field hospital -- all of it in ISO-spec ocean shipping containers with walls that fold up into place and voila, instant fully-featured surgery facilities, ICUs, etc.

It's like what Bernie Sanders was saying.... if we spend $50k (one time) to put poor kids through college then we don't have to spend $100k (year after year) to keep them in prisons. Pay now. Pay later. But dammit, we're gonna pay that bill.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post

It's like what Bernie Sanders was saying.... if we spend $50k (one time) to put poor kids through college then we don't have to spend $100k (year after year) to keep them in prisons. Pay now. Pay later. But dammit, we're gonna pay that bill.
Exactly the taxpayers are going to be paying one way or another. I know my plan is a hard sell in the Springs but thats how I feel about the issue and I think just throwing around platitudes and judging the homeless is not the path forward.
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:48 PM
 
20,304 posts, read 37,790,850 times
Reputation: 18081
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Exactly the taxpayers are going to be paying one way or another. I know my plan is a hard sell in the Springs but thats how I feel about the issue and I think just throwing around platitudes and judging the homeless is not the path forward.
Of course if COLO SPGS is the only one who does this then the homeless will flock to it; has to be in many states, has to include some sort of work requirement else it'll become a youth hostel. Maybe they could put these in California and use the homeless to pick crops in place of illegal immigrants .... just thinking out loud...
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Old 08-07-2018, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Of course if COLO SPGS is the only one who does this then the homeless will flock to it; has to be in many states, has to include some sort of work requirement else it'll become a youth hostel. Maybe they could put these in California and use the homeless to pick crops in place of illegal immigrants .... just thinking out loud...
Thats certainly a good point a national program would be needed. I also think the argument that we can't afford such a program is ludicrous. Our defense budget for this year alone is 700 billion. https://militarybenefits.info/2018-d...dget-overview/
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:10 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Thats garbage most want to work they either don't have the skills or the opportunity for employment not to mention the many mentally ill. The only real solution is free housing for chronic homeless individuals if there living situation stabilizes maybe some will find employment. For those that don't I have no problem with the state giving them bare bones apartments better that than having them live outside.
I will respond. That is garbage! Most do want a handout. They want the freedom to live without rules. Unfortunately nobody pays a living wage for that, unless you get your way. Your solution is nothing short of enabling, and the problem will grow and spread like a plague.

"I have no problem with the state giving them bare bones apartments" I assume you realize "the state" means us?

If you were raising a child and every time he/she fell you picked them up, they would never learn how to pick themselves up. Our society is picking up too many children.

Just because you believe it, does not make it true. You simply have a differing opinion.

Last edited by colobill; 08-07-2018 at 08:39 PM..
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Old 08-07-2018, 08:26 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Of course if COLO SPGS is the only one who does this then the homeless will flock to it; has to be in many states, has to include some sort of work requirement else it'll become a youth hostel. Maybe they could put these in California and use the homeless to pick crops in place of illegal immigrants .... just thinking out loud...
"Of course if COLO SPGS is the only one who does this then the homeless will flock to it;"

This statement says a lot. Talk to some of our homeless here in the Springs. They came from all over the country. They use the library internet and communicate with each other to determine what cities offer better benefits to the homeless. Certainly sounds like someone capable of working, but chooses not to. They can move across the country for a handout, but they won't fill out a job application.
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Old 08-08-2018, 06:58 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
Your solution is nothing short of enabling, and the problem will grow and spread like a plague.
Let me ask you something. Is medicare or social security enabling seniors who were unable to save a sufficient amount? Do food stamps enable poor people to eat? With your logic there should be no safety and the poor should just starve. Personally I don't want to live in a third world country and I believe that free housing is the way forward.
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Old 08-08-2018, 10:48 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Let me ask you something. Is medicare or social security enabling seniors who were unable to save a sufficient amount? Do food stamps enable poor people to eat? With your logic there should be no safety and the poor should just starve. Personally I don't want to live in a third world country and I believe that free housing is the way forward.
When people invest in their own retirement, it amounts to a WHOLE lot more money than their return on medicare and social security. Social security and medicare is a poor investment that only results in a liability for the gov't, ie us the tax payers.

If you feed the deer, bears, or any other wildlife, they become dependent upon it, and stop foraging for themselves. I believe most unconditional handouts to humans has the same effect. Why work today if I can have free shelter tonight, and a free meal tomorrow. For some, they will choose that over working a steady job!

Do some research on gov't provided housing. Most if not all have been trashed and run down because the people have no respect for what has been given to them.

People in third world countries are homeless and starving because there are no opportunities to work. There are plenty of opportunities to work here in the US. Handouts are so prevalent that people choose not to work!

I believe you want to live in a socialist society, and you are willing to commit my money to your cause. I believe your plan could result in us becoming a third world country. What is your plan when the dependents out number the providers?

It is amazing what humans are capable of if they have the proper incentives. Handouts and subsidies rob them of the motivation to reach their true potential!
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
When people invest in their own retirement, it amounts to a WHOLE lot more money than their return on medicare and social security.
That is correct but in the United States the majority of people are paid so poorly that it is impossible to put aside money to invest. Not to mention the skyrocketing costs of healthcare and education. In the Great Depression era we had senior citizens living in chicken coops because they were so destitute I certainly have no desire to return to those times. I also have a feeling you are concerned with where your tax money goes? It would be cheaper to house the homeless than pay for them when they go to jail for sleeping outside or go to the emergency room since they injured themselves because they are forced to live outside.

So basically the long and short of it is it is cheaper to house the homeless than to pretend they don't exist. I do agree with you though that throwing around platitudes like "they don't want to work" is certainly easier.
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