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Old 08-08-2018, 11:55 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
That is correct but in the United States the majority of people are paid so poorly that it is impossible to put aside money to invest. Not to mention the skyrocketing costs of healthcare and education. In the Great Depression era we had senior citizens living in chicken coops because they were so destitute I certainly have no desire to return to those times. I also have a feeling you are concerned with where your tax money goes? It would be cheaper to house the homeless than pay for them when they go to jail for sleeping outside or go to the emergency room since they injured themselves because they are forced to live outside.

So basically the long and short of it is it is cheaper to house the homeless than to pretend they don't exist. I do agree with you though that throwing around platitudes like "they don't want to work" is certainly easier.
Your reasoning is faulted. Again you use a poor example to prove your point. We are not in a depression, we do not have people "living in chicken coops" because there are no opportunities for work. Back then businesses had "Not hiring" signs in the windows. Today you have people begging in front of the "Help Wanted" signs. Even bolder, their cardboard signs say "will work for food", and you believe they want to work, but can't find work.

I am absolutely concerned about where my tax money goes! The long and short of it is, it is cheaper to allow people to hit rock bottom, and then pick themselves up. A portion of society is not picking themselves up because you are there with a handout!

Stop "feeding the bears", and they will go forage for themselves. You seem to have this strong desire to help these apparently helpless people. How much of your own money have you contributed to your cause, and tell us about the success stories. How many have you invited into your home, and when they moved out, did they become self sufficient and move into their own place?
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Old 08-08-2018, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
Your reasoning is faulted. Again you use a poor example to prove your point. We are not in a depression, we do not have people "living in chicken coops" because there are no opportunities for work. Back then businesses had "Not hiring" signs in the windows. Today you have people begging in front of the "Help Wanted" signs. Even bolder, their cardboard signs say "will work for food", and you believe they want to work, but can't find work.

I am absolutely concerned about where my tax money goes! The long and short of it is, it is cheaper to allow people to hit rock bottom, and then pick themselves up. A portion of society is not picking themselves up because you are there with a handout!

Stop "feeding the bears", and they will go forage for themselves.
I strongly disagree people are not animals. Not everyone is cut out to work or can not get to where the work is. Some people are born into circumstances outside of there control and need a leg up. People like you make it that much harder because you want to kick the poor when they are down instead of giving a ladder for them. I want people to work. I also don't want people to sleep outside in the richest country in the world. I think you are penny wise but pound foolish when it comes to the cost of homelessness. Again you are paying for them one way or another they won't just go away because you don't like the fact that the USA has poor people they exist.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:12 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I strongly disagree people are not animals. Not everyone is cut out to work or can not get to where the work is. Some people are born into circumstances outside of there control and need a leg up. People like you make it that much harder because you want to kick the poor when they are down instead of givina a ladder for them. I want people to work. I also don't want people to sleep outside in the richest country in the world. I think you are penny wise but pound foolish when it comes to the cost of homelessness. Again you are paying for them one way or another they won't just go away because you don't like the fact that the USA has poor people they exist.
You didn't answer my questions:

"How much of your own money have you contributed to your cause, and tell us about the success stories. How many have you invited into your home, and when they moved out, did they become self sufficient and move into their own place?"

I don't want them to go away, I want them to better themselves. When they support themselves, the cost of homelessness goes away. You are perpetuating the cost, and more will climb aboard for the freebies! You want to provide them a level of comfort that sucks away their motivation, drive, and dignity.

Your selfish desire to help them is contributing to the problem. It is sad that you can feel good about your self righteous efforts.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
\
Your selfish desire to help them is contributing to the problem.
American Conservatism summed up ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:20 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
American Conservatism summed up ladies and gentlemen.
You really need to learn the negative impact and high costs of enabling!
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:24 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
You really need to learn the negative impact and high costs of enabling!
The fact that you think helping the homeless through the government is bad speaks volumes.
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Old 08-08-2018, 12:36 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post

The only real solution is free housing for chronic homeless individuals if there living situation stabilizes maybe some will find employment. For those that don't I have no problem with the state giving them bare bones apartments better that than having them live outside.

Exactly the taxpayers are going to be paying one way or another.

I believe that free housing is the way forward.

I also have a feeling you are concerned with where your tax money goes?

So basically the long and short of it is it is cheaper to house the homeless than to pretend they don't exist.

Not everyone is cut out to work or can not get to where the work is.

Some people are born into circumstances outside of there control and need a leg up.

The fact that you think helping the homeless through the government is bad speaks volumes.
socialism summed up ladies and gentlemen.
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Old 08-09-2018, 07:16 AM
 
331 posts, read 163,698 times
Reputation: 532
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
socialism summed up ladies and gentlemen.
Exactly correct- "those people" will never allow the bums, winos, assorted derelicts (a.k.a. "homeless" in PC-speak) to live in their homes or even live close by them (in shelters etc..).

Similar to prairie dogs- move them somewhere just not next to ME.

Dad always told us "never go to the park and feed the pigeons- you will always get more of them".

The city needs to make it uncomfortable for the people who are too lazy to take care of themselves and maybe they will move on to greener pastures. We do need to help the truly homeless who lost a job or had some other life-altering event but not the people who just look for handouts.
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Old 08-09-2018, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
I think one of the main reasons people don't want the government to give free apartments to the poor is most Americans see homelessness as a moral failing and would rather punish them than fix the root cause of the problem.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:36 AM
 
Location: We_tside PNW (Columbia Gorge) / CO / SA TX / Thailand
20,785 posts, read 37,451,783 times
Reputation: 20782
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I think one of the main reasons people don't want the government to give free apartments to the poor is most Americans see homelessness as a moral failing and would rather punish them than fix the root cause of the problem.
but... the gov HAS been giving free housing to the poor since 1960's. That is nice, and can keep the families safe(r), but as you mentioned... will NOT fix the root of the problem.

In some cases you cannot FIX them, but an most cases you can engage them and provide a far better QoL and less burden for their families and the Gov.

Might be time to engage non-profit NGOs to run Poor Farms (popular in the 1930s). That will not work for all, but could be of tremendous value to society and families. I feel the CCC / Poor Farms, YCC, other 'skilled trades' / public service roles led a lot to the Allied victory of WWII. Inductees knew how to be resourceful, and the USA was very supportive / will to make huge sacrifices. (I don't see that underlying attitude today)

There are other appropriate formulas than Poor Farms, and so many opportunities and vast knowledge gains and resources in the last 80 yrs. Solutions are possible (tomorrow).
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