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Old 08-09-2018, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894

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Quote:
Originally Posted by StealthRabbit View Post
but... the gov HAS been giving free housing to the poor since 1960's.
The programs are piecemeal and really only focus on single women with children not to mention the long waiting lists. I agree with you that more work programs should be pushed but I think that ultimately free housing for the chronic homeless is the way forward. It would cost the taxpayers less in the long run as well.
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Old 08-09-2018, 09:57 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Enabling:
Removing the natural consequences of someone's behavior.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
Enabling:
Removing the natural consequences of someone's behavior.
Not everyone is homeless through factors they can control.
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:08 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Not everyone is homeless through factors they can control.
You still haven't answered my questions:

"How much of your own money have you contributed to your cause, and tell us about the success stories. How many have you invited into your home, and when they moved out, did they become self sufficient and move into their own place?"

Perhaps you would be happier living in Venezuela?
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Old 08-09-2018, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
You still haven't answered my questions:

"How much of your own money have you contributed to your cause, and tell us about the success stories. How many have you invited into your home, and when they moved out, did they become self sufficient and move into their own place?"

Perhaps you would be happier living in Venezuela?
I volunteer at the homeless shelter frequently and have given money. The thing I can't do it alone and since I want my tax dollars to be used as efficiently as possible I believe the state should house them. Also Venezuela has nothing to do with this discussions and I have no idea why you thought it would be a good idea to bring it up.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:22 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
How can you not know how this relates to Venezuela? You never answered my question about what your plan was when the number of dependants outnumber the number of providers?

If you have volunteered for a while, than you should be able to see how the problem is only getting worse, the more the city tries to help. The Marian House soup kitchen started giving free meals, and the number of the needy grew. The city started putting homeless up in hotel rooms, and the number of needy grew. The city allowed camping, and the number of homeless grew. They spent millions on the Rescue Mission, and the number of homeless have grown. How many units do you want to build for the homeless. 20, 50, 100, 200, 500? It won't be enough!

Your idea sounds great to a lot of lazy people. Why work everyday when borninthesprings is willing to give me a roof over my head? How will people qualify, and how will you prevent people from abusing the system? Will they have a limited time in the units, or can they live in them indefinitely?

I am curious, do you see any possible ways that this may not turn out the way you think? Or are you absolutely convinced you have the solution? I only ask because you are willing to commit others to pay for your plan, even if it goes against their beliefs and ideologies, and it appears that you have done very little research on the social and economic impacts it will have.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
How can you not know how this relates to Venezuela? You never answered my question about what your plan was when the number of dependants outnumber the number of providers?

If you have volunteered for a while, than you should be able to see how the problem is only getting worse, the more the city tries to help. The Marian House soup kitchen started giving free meals, and the number of the needy grew. The city started putting homeless up in hotel rooms, and the number of needy grew. The city allowed camping, and the number of homeless grew. They spent millions on the Rescue Mission, and the number of homeless have grown. How many units do you want to build for the homeless. 20, 50, 100, 200, 500? It won't be enough!

Your idea sounds great to a lot of lazy people. Why work everyday when borninthesprings is willing to give me a roof over my head? How will people qualify, and how will you prevent people from abusing the system? Will they have a limited time in the units, or can they live in them indefinitely?

I am curious, do you see any possible ways that this may not turn out the way you think? Or are you absolutely convinced you have the solution? I only ask because you are willing to commit others to pay for your plan, even if it goes against their beliefs and ideologies, and it appears that you have done very little research on the social and economic impacts it will have.
I want a floor not a ceiling.
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Old 08-09-2018, 12:40 PM
 
Location: CO/UT/AZ/NM Catch me if you can!
4,253 posts, read 3,951,390 times
Reputation: 9432
Wow! Just skimmed through this thread and it is SO Colorado Springs - conservative and in denial to the bitter end.

People become homeless for many reasons that they don't always have control of. Often they suffer from schizophrenia or other mental illnesses. Some may be vets with extreme cases of PTSD. Some suffer from other disabilities that prevent them from holding down a full time job or any job at all. And yes, some are alcoholics or addicts.

I am an advocate for the Colorado Cross Disability Coalition, and I've seen a lot of heartbreaking things. There was the woman and her son with Down's syndrome who had fled to Colorado from Utah to escape an abusive and forced marriage (she was Mormon of the fundamentalist slant). They finally found shelter in a battered trailer east of town where she ended up killing herself because she was told they couldn't stay there and would have to go back on the streets.

On cold winter nights I used to drive around the area near downtown where many of the so-called "bridge people" used to live. I always carried a bunch of blankets and peanut butter sandwiches which I would bestow upon people huddled in doorways to escape the cold. I used to give homeless people a few bucks and drop them off at the downtown Denny's so that they could buy coffee and have a warm place to stay for 2 or 3 hours in the small hours of the morning when the temperatures are at their most chilling. Etc., etc. I know whereof I speak.

Colorado Springs is a miserable town for those down on their luck. Just read the mean spirited replies to BornintheSprings' posts.

To anyone who believes that the government provides housing for the poor, get real. The Section 8 program administered by HUD has been cut to the bone and Trump wants to do away with it completely. A housing voucher is more precious than rubies and even the wait list for the Colorado Springs Housing Authority is closed. If you do get a voucher, good luck finding a place to rent in Colorado Springs' roaring real estate market. The amount of rent that a voucher will cover sends landlords into gales of laughter and the recipient back to another week, another month, another year on the streets.

For those who think compassion is a four letter word, let's contemplate enlightened self interest. No one wants to live in a city where large numbers of the homeless wander the streets, panhandling passers by and filling the chairs at Penrose Library where they pretend to read newspapers or books, so security won't throw them out. The way a community treats its most vulnerable members of society says much about the people who live there. The situation in the Springs shrieks heartless in capitol letters.

The United States spends more than four times as much on homeowner subsidies as it does on affordable housing for those most in need. The U.S. shells out roughly $46 billion a year on affordable housing—$40 billion on means-tested programs and another $6 billion in tax expenditures through the Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) program, which supports affordable housing investments for low-income Americans. Compare that to $195 billion in subsidies that flow largely to wealthy and middle class homeowners via tax deductions for mortgage interest. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/...ousing/390666/

Why does no one complain about all their tax dollars going to subsidize lazy middle and upper class home owners? Those folks could easily afford to pay that mortgage interest, but no - they go running to Uncle Sam with their hands out. Why is it OK for the government to help those who need it least, yet ignore the suffering of those below the poverty line as they die on the streets?

Get your noses out of the editorial page from the Gazette, Colorado Springs. You already live in a town heavily dependent on government spending - many of you get a paycheck from the Feds. Government spending is great for you and frack everyone else. The religious right has made Colorado Springs its epicenter. Why don't the fundamentalists among you sit down with your Bibles and re-read the Sermon on the Mount?

Threads like this one make me glad I left and reluctant to ever return to my old hometown. Some things never change I guess, and that's a damn shame for Colorado Springs.

Last edited by Colorado Rambler; 08-09-2018 at 12:51 PM..
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:05 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
"I always carried a bunch of blankets and peanut butter sandwiches which I would bestow upon people huddled in doorways to escape the cold."

"I know whereof I speak."
Aren't you full of yourself.

"Just read the mean spirited replies to BornintheSprings' posts."
Why do you feel the need to make him out to be a victim?
I decided to jump in when he referred to someones response as "that's garbage. I love how anxious he is to spend other people's money, whether they like it or not. So self righteous, and so clueless at the same time.

I choose to help who I want to help, but I don't tell you who and how you must help. That is the difference.

"Why does no one complain about all their tax dollars going to subsidize lazy middle and upper class home owners?"
So you find disdain for the working middle and upper class that contribute to society? I suppose you will accept them when they loose their home for "reasons that they don't always have control of"? But screw them while they are working and productive members of society.

Glad I could disappoint you! Your codependency only allows you to like people you can enable. You must find victims to rescue. It allows you to feel good about yourself. I choose to find hard working people and empower them to become better.
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Old 08-09-2018, 04:26 PM
Status: "Goodbye fall ... hello winter" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: Manitou Springs
924 posts, read 1,030,894 times
Reputation: 810
I recently read an interesting book by Paul Theroux, a well-known travel writer. The book is titled "Deep South" (highly recommend it). It was an interesting read that opened my eyes to a part of the country I don't give much thought to. What it boils down to is how much poverty he saw in the southern states, especially since the loss of manufacturing jobs to other countries. How many people live in what can barely be called shacks, not knowing where their next meal might come from; no work even if they want to work.

What does that have to do with this topic?

Well, Theroux has traveled extensively in third world countries and parts of Africa. What he witnessed in those travels is how much money (think billions) America has thrown at those desperate places, and how little the people in this country get the same kind of consideration and help. The poor, the working poor, the homeless - If Uncle Sam would re-prioritize where it puts our money, think of the things that could be accomplished. This country has the means to help those who need it, but our government seems to choose throwing a lot of money overseas, with not much return on that investment (that I know of). I'm not saying we shouldn't help were help is needed, but help is needed here just as badly.

The question of "how much of our own money have we contributed to the cause" is easily answered. All of us who pay taxes contribute to everything eventually, don't we? Even if it's just the paychecks for the policemen and women tasked with monitoring those illegal camps.

We all pay - I'd rather see my money more wisely spent and left here in our own country/state/city. Then we can help the world.
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