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Old 08-10-2018, 01:47 PM
 
331 posts, read 163,698 times
Reputation: 532

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Quote:
Originally Posted by orngkat View Post
There are so many different reasons for homelessness. Here is one story; seems to me he has plenty of ambition to be mostly rootless and dependent on handouts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/mayakac.../#617bf3af1c6b
No sympathy or money for "these people" from me.
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Old 08-10-2018, 01:53 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork View Post
Thing is, I did persevere and overcome, I had a will to make life better and it took years of work. However...without the help I got, I wouldn't have survived the hardest time of it. Literally. I was malnourished and underweight, walking through a ghetto to get free bread to survive on. When I waited tables for a little while, I was scrounging unfinished food off of plates. I was too hungry to care. Granted, as I said, the most useful help came from private charity, rather than the government. Well. Except for the medical care. Because if I hadn't had access to health care through the state when my first kid was born, I guess I'd have had to either give birth at home with no help and hope for the best, or maybe incur a huge heap of debt I could never hope to pay. My minimum wage jobs did not provide any health insurance at the time.

I know we won't see eye to eye as you are hardly the first person I know who holds this position. I respect that you believe this and you stand where you stand. But I don't think we can make the populace be smart about what they support with their dollars, and sometimes the masses make weird choices. Like prioritizing sportsball guy over schoolteacher (my opinion.) The best answer I can think of is to redistribute wealth...somewhat...but then it comes back to HOW--because I have serious trust issues when it comes to simply taking tax money and trusting the government to administer it for the betterment of society. I'd be down for some choice, for those required to give back, in where they can direct their money. But I cannot defend and root for the wealthiest, especially those who can take advantage of corrupt collusions with government to protect and grow their fortunes at the expense of others...I mean it nearly seems like there are people who want to protect the rights of those at the top out of a notion that one day it will be them, and they don't want anybody interfering with their path to the riches they might one day have. I just don't buy that. The whole "American Dream" that one day with all the plucky hard work and ingenuity, I'll be rich too...it's an illusion for almost everyone.

I find it ridiculous that in this country, so many people worship those above them and spit on those below.

And I do think that a society that utterly scorns their least fortunate, denies them any compassion or "handouts" of any kind, and allows free reign for cunning connivers to amass limitless wealth concentrated in the hands of a few...look, I don't want to be another country with miles and miles of shack cities where people crouch under corrugated sheets of rusting metal. Yes, we have opportunities here that maybe some nations do not...which is why I think that part of any assistance programs should include training and help in becoming self-sufficient whenever possible. That's why my first post on this thread was to plug Job Corps. Yeah, it's government funded and those kids get a couple of years where the taxpayers are supporting them, but they do hard work in area infrastructure, they fight fires and things like that, and they get training in a trade and help getting a job when they're out.

But what a lot of folks maybe don't know, is that public assistance nowadays, actually IS geared toward getting people working and independent. People on it have to attend classes, and try to get work, and take jobs that they're offered. We have been working for a long time to make the "Welfare Queen" thing an impossibility.

Of course the obvious thing to me, after being an Army wife for a while, was that it is in the government's benefit for there to be plenty of poor young adults from poor families. The military is a pretty sure path out of that, for anyone who can make the most of it. The pay and benefits are no joke, better than what most 18-25 year olds are going to find without a degree. They'll never have to draft anyone again, so long as it's expensive and difficult to get educated, health insurance isn't a guarantee, and buying a home is a wild dream due to hefty down payment requirements. Kids, just join the military! You'll probably survive, you get loads of neat bennies, and hopefully your body and mind won't be too broken for you to enjoy them!
We do have differing opinions, but I appreciate your thoughtful and respectful response.
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Old 08-11-2018, 06:46 AM
 
Location: 80904 West siiiiiide!
2,864 posts, read 7,096,377 times
Reputation: 1543
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colorado Rambler View Post
Wow! Just skimmed through this thread and it is SO Colorado Springs - conservative and in denial to the bitter end.

People become homeless for many reasons that they don't always have control of. Often they suffer from schizophrenia or other mental illnesses. Some may be vets with extreme cases of PTSD. Some suffer from other disabilities that prevent them from holding down a full time job or any job at all. And yes, some are alcoholics or addicts.

I am an advocate for the Colorado Cross Disability Coalition, and I've seen a lot of heartbreaking things. There was the woman and her son with Down's syndrome who had fled to Colorado from Utah to escape an abusive and forced marriage (she was Mormon of the fundamentalist slant). They finally found shelter in a battered trailer east of town where she ended up killing herself because she was told they couldn't stay there and would have to go back on the streets.

On cold winter nights I used to drive around the area near downtown where many of the so-called "bridge people" used to live. I always carried a bunch of blankets and peanut butter sandwiches which I would bestow upon people huddled in doorways to escape the cold. I used to give homeless people a few bucks and drop them off at the downtown Denny's so that they could buy coffee and have a warm place to stay for 2 or 3 hours in the small hours of the morning when the temperatures are at their most chilling. Etc., etc. I know whereof I speak.

Colorado Springs is a miserable town for those down on their luck. Just read the mean spirited replies to BornintheSprings' posts.

To anyone who believes that the government provides housing for the poor, get real. The Section 8 program administered by HUD has been cut to the bone and Trump wants to do away with it completely. A housing voucher is more precious than rubies and even the wait list for the Colorado Springs Housing Authority is closed. If you do get a voucher, good luck finding a place to rent in Colorado Springs' roaring real estate market. The amount of rent that a voucher will cover sends landlords into gales of laughter and the recipient back to another week, another month, another year on the streets.

For those who think compassion is a four letter word, let's contemplate enlightened self interest. No one wants to live in a city where large numbers of the homeless wander the streets, panhandling passers by and filling the chairs at Penrose Library where they pretend to read newspapers or books, so security won't throw them out. The way a community treats its most vulnerable members of society says much about the people who live there. The situation in the Springs shrieks heartless in capitol letters.

The United States spends more than four times as much on homeowner subsidies as it does on affordable housing for those most in need. The U.S. shells out roughly $46 billion a year on affordable housing—$40 billion on means-tested programs and another $6 billion in tax expenditures through the Low Income Housing Tax Credit (LIHTC) program, which supports affordable housing investments for low-income Americans. Compare that to $195 billion in subsidies that flow largely to wealthy and middle class homeowners via tax deductions for mortgage interest. https://www.citylab.com/equity/2015/...ousing/390666/

Why does no one complain about all their tax dollars going to subsidize lazy middle and upper class home owners? Those folks could easily afford to pay that mortgage interest, but no - they go running to Uncle Sam with their hands out. Why is it OK for the government to help those who need it least, yet ignore the suffering of those below the poverty line as they die on the streets?

Get your noses out of the editorial page from the Gazette, Colorado Springs. You already live in a town heavily dependent on government spending - many of you get a paycheck from the Feds. Government spending is great for you and frack everyone else. The religious right has made Colorado Springs its epicenter. Why don't the fundamentalists among you sit down with your Bibles and re-read the Sermon on the Mount?

Threads like this one make me glad I left and reluctant to ever return to my old hometown. Some things never change I guess, and that's a damn shame for Colorado Springs.
I have no issue with the government taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves, i.e, the mentally ill, disabled, etc. We absolutely SHOULD be subsidizing them, and we do (I have a severely mentally ill brother in law who is a ward of the state and lives in a group home, he will never live on his own), but when I see young, able-bodied people who could clearly be doing something useful, it irritates me to no end. Basically they'd rather just stand on some median with a cardboard sign and beg for money all day, instead of putting in an honest day's work. Several times I've offered to give them day jobs doing labor around my house, said I'd pay $10hr, and every single time, they refuse.

I could not possibly care less about running them out of town, they're lazy, liars, drunks and/or addicts, and pure scam artists.
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Old 08-11-2018, 09:34 AM
 
608 posts, read 319,980 times
Reputation: 824
Quote:
Originally Posted by LHS79 View Post
No sympathy or money for "these people" from me.
This Levon seriously needs a job or to be picked up by a military recruiter.
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Old 08-11-2018, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
I have no issue with the government taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves, i.e, the mentally ill, disabled, etc. We absolutely SHOULD be subsidizing them, and we do (I have a severely mentally ill brother in law who is a ward of the state and lives in a group home, he will never live on his own), but when I see young, able-bodied people who could clearly be doing something useful, it irritates me to no end. Basically they'd rather just stand on some median with a cardboard sign and beg for money all day, instead of putting in an honest day's work. Several times I've offered to give them day jobs doing labor around my house, said I'd pay $10hr, and every single time, they refuse.

I could not possibly care less about running them out of town, they're lazy, liars, drunks and/or addicts, and pure scam artists.
If I was homeless I might be suspicious of some random person coming up to me and offering me a "job". Whose to say what the persons intentions might be. Since homeless people suffer quite a bit of abuse and violence on the street I could see why they would be wary.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:24 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
If I was homeless I might be suspicious of some random person coming up to me and offering me a "job". Whose to say what the persons intentions might be. Since homeless people suffer quite a bit of abuse and violence on the street I could see why they would be wary.
You are really reaching on this one! Their signs sometimes state "will work for food". The smarter ones no longer do that, because they don't want to be offered work.

They must also be wary of the buildings with big windows, people always coming in and out. The "Help Wanted" signs in the window are just the bait to lure them in, right? You are right, they are "wary" of work!

Last edited by colobill; 08-11-2018 at 11:34 AM..
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
You are really reaching on this one!
I don't think so unless you are denying the fact that the homeless suffer quite a bit more violence than the average person. Many of them are also fleeing abusive situations and just trusting a random person may be a bit much no matter how noble there intentions are. I believe people should work if they are able to but I can see why some homeless people might turn down an offer like that.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:42 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
I don't think so unless you are denying the fact that the homeless suffer quite a bit more violence than the average person. Many of them are also fleeing abusive situations and just trusting a random person may be a bit much no matter how noble there intentions are. I believe people should work if they are able to but I can see why some homeless people might turn down an offer like that.
Please define your version of "able to work". I would just like to hear you admit that a significant portion of our street people choose not to work! If you can't admit to that, you are delusional. Which would explain why your arguments have little merit.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,786 posts, read 1,465,656 times
Reputation: 2894
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
Please define your version of "able to work". I would just like to hear you admit that a significant portion of our street people choose not to work! If you can't admit to that, you are delusional. Which would explain why your arguments have little merit.
National Coalition for the Homeless According to this around 44 percent of homeless individuals are employed and I would hazard a guess that the majority want to work but are unable to due to lack of a stable living situation. I think you want to believe that the homeless all have a moral failing because they are poor but that is simply not true. In the United States people can become poor and homeless for many reasons that aren't laziness. Are there some sure are they the majority definitely not!
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:47 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,116 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
the homeless suffer quite a bit more violence than the average person.
We all would suffer more violence if we lived on the streets! That is why we CHOOSE to work! So we can provide some shelter and safety for ourselves and our family! It all boils down to choices, some are good, and some are bad.
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