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Old 08-11-2018, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,799 posts, read 1,470,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
We all would suffer more violence if we lived on the streets! That is why we CHOOSE to work! So we can provide some shelter and safety for ourselves and our family! It all boils down to choices, some are good, and some are bad.
Homeless people do work and yet some remain homeless most curious. Its almost like there are forces that keep people in poverty.
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:54 AM
 
96 posts, read 89,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Homeless people do work and yet some remain homeless most curious. Its almost like there are forces that keep people in poverty.
You said you volunteer at he shelter, New Hope, Rescue Mission, or another? Since you volunteer there, what percentage of them do you think are going to work every morning they leave the shelter?
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Old 08-11-2018, 11:59 AM
 
20,310 posts, read 37,810,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
... Its almost like there are forces that keep people in poverty.
Yes, you're referring to the minimum wage.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,799 posts, read 1,470,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post
You said you volunteer at he shelter, New Hope, Rescue Mission, or another? Since you volunteer there, what percentage of them do you think are going to work every morning they leave the shelter?
Some work for the shelter others take the bus to various temp jobs. Others appear to have health problems or are addicts just guessing based on behavior. I mainly volunteer at the Rescue mission. I believe the biggest obstacle for alot of the folks is lack of stable housing hence my free apartment idea and infrequent access to showers.
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:10 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BornintheSprings View Post
Some work for the shelter others take the bus to various temp jobs. Others appear to have health problems or are addicts just guessing based on behavior. I mainly volunteer at the Rescue mission. I believe the biggest obstacle for alot of the folks is lack of stable housing hence my free apartment idea and infrequent access to showers.
Just guess how many actively work, 10%, 20%, 50%, 75%?
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:24 PM
 
20,310 posts, read 37,810,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryanek9freak View Post
I have no issue with the government taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves, i.e, the mentally ill, disabled, etc. We absolutely SHOULD be subsidizing them, and we do (I have a severely mentally ill brother in law who is a ward of the state and lives in a group home, he will never live on his own).

But when I see young, able-bodied people who could clearly be doing something useful, it irritates me to no end. Basically they'd rather just stand on some median with a cardboard sign and beg for money all day, instead of putting in an honest day's work. Several times I've offered to give them day jobs doing labor around my house, said I'd pay $10hr, and every single time, they refuse.

I could not possibly care less about running them out of town, they're lazy, liars, drunks and/or addicts, and pure scam artists.
Ryan, thank you. Glad your BIL is in a safe place.

There are some things we can do for the Able-Bodied Homeless (ABH) ones to bring them into the mainstream. In no particular order I suggest

- Raise minimum wage to about $12.00/hour, indexed by locality, indexed for inflation. At this level a person can squeeze by on @2000 hours/year and should be sufficient inducement for many of the ABH to work.

- Medicare for all. IMO it will be a net saver of money, and pay for the non-workers, when we take the 25% overhead out of the insurance market. The ABH are using the ERs and we end up paying that in our health insurance rates or taxes. My sister used to drive all the way across Baltimore for a job that paid $10/hour but included medical coverage. If the burger joint up the street paid that, plus medical, she would've worked there but right now it's a vow of poverty to work minimum wage jobs that have no benefits.

- I think it was in post #5 of this thread that I opined to bring back Work Farms. This is how I'd like to see the ABH to earn their keep, be it litter lifters, farm workers, or whatever. There'd be requirements for earning GEDs or learning some trades.

- Stop giving handouts to panhandlers on corners. Only time I ever did that was when I gave a half-used Burger King gift card to some dude at N. Academy and Voyager Pkwy, by the Valero gas station. Only time. Ever.

- Outlaw living a homeless lifestyle in urban/suburban areas. Go to the work farm, get a job, or join the Cool Hand Luke detention center.

- Got to be nationwide, can't piecemeal this, can't give bus tickets to the homeless to go "there."


Like Sonic, my family had its own trip through poverty's wringer. Father became paralyzed in 1958 (I was 10). Mom was a farm girl from WV who came to Baltimore in 1941 to work in a war plant. Never went home. Mom had no trade skills so she waited tables or worked in a glass factory. Seven days a week. Months on end. Lost the house. Lost the car. Water heater broke, no money to replace it. Got a bath once a week when Mom heated water on the stove in buckets; I got the leftover gray water after my 3 sisters went first. Holes in my shoes, pants, and teeth, my pals called me Mr. Tooth Decay. No safety net then. Mom's waitress pals left groceries on our doorstep. It was all on Mom. She never surrendered, fought our way out. Eventually railroad retirement came through for Father but there were about 3 dreadful years and another ten that sucked. Poverty is a true horror. (I can only imagine how awful it was for minorities who were discriminated against on top of poverty). I'm 70 now, still running, from Baltimore, from the poverty, from the way some people treated us. We were damned near homeless. Mom went through that as a kid, born 1916, she had 3 brothers, their father walked off the farm about 1920 and never seen again, her Mom had a nervous breakdown, the four of them were farmed out to nearby families. Hard to imagine life in rural WV during the Great Depression.

Must be a better way than what we're doing now.....
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Old 08-11-2018, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,799 posts, read 1,470,533 times
Reputation: 2906
Wow great post Mike wish I could rep it.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:12 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,210 times
Reputation: 162
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Ryan, thank you. Glad your BIL is in a safe place.

There are some things we can do for the Able-Bodied Homeless (ABH) ones to bring them into the mainstream. In no particular order I suggest

- Raise minimum wage to about $12.00/hour, indexed by locality, indexed for inflation. At this level a person can squeeze by on @2000 hours/year and should be sufficient inducement for many of the ABH to work.

- Medicare for all. IMO it will be a net saver of money, and pay for the non-workers, when we take the 25% overhead out of the insurance market. The ABH are using the ERs and we end up paying that in our health insurance rates or taxes. My sister used to drive all the way across Baltimore for a job that paid $10/hour but included medical coverage. If the burger joint up the street paid that, plus medical, she would've worked there but right now it's a vow of poverty to work minimum wage jobs that have no benefits.

- I think it was in post #5 of this thread that I opined to bring back Work Farms. This is how I'd like to see the ABH to earn their keep, be it litter lifters, farm workers, or whatever. There'd be requirements for earning GEDs or learning some trades.

- Stop giving handouts to panhandlers on corners. Only time I ever did that was when I gave a half-used Burger King gift card to some dude at N. Academy and Voyager Pkwy, by the Valero gas station. Only time. Ever.

- Outlaw living a homeless lifestyle in urban/suburban areas. Go to the work farm, get a job, or join the Cool Hand Luke detention center.

- Got to be nationwide, can't piecemeal this, can't give bus tickets to the homeless to go "there."


Like Sonic, my family had its own trip through poverty's wringer. Father became paralyzed in 1958 (I was 10). Mom was a farm girl from WV who came to Baltimore in 1941 to work in a war plant. Never went home. Mom had no trade skills so she waited tables or worked in a glass factory. Seven days a week. Months on end. Lost the house. Lost the car. Water heater broke, no money to replace it. Got a bath once a week when Mom heated water on the stove in buckets; I got the leftover gray water after my 3 sisters went first. Holes in my shoes, pants, and teeth, my pals called me Mr. Tooth Decay. No safety net then. Mom's waitress pals left groceries on our doorstep. It was all on Mom. She never surrendered, fought our way out. Eventually railroad retirement came through for Father but there were about 3 dreadful years and another ten that sucked. Poverty is a true horror. (I can only imagine how awful it was for minorities who were discriminated against on top of poverty). I'm 70 now, still running, from Baltimore, from the poverty, from the way some people treated us. We were damned near homeless. Mom went through that as a kid, born 1916, she had 3 brothers, their father walked off the farm about 1920 and never seen again, her Mom had a nervous breakdown, the four of them were farmed out to nearby families. Hard to imagine life in rural WV during the Great Depression.

Must be a better way than what we're doing now.....
Good post! I like that you have conditions and consequences, as opposed to unconditional handouts. We definitely need to have a way of separating the people who need assistance, ie mentally challenged, physically challenged (sorry if these terms are not PC, I don't keep up with the changes), the people who need a hand up (acute circumstances that require a short term solution), and the chronic "needy" that don't want to work, but seem to think they need assistance. I am not interested in providing services that help the 2%, and enable the other 98%.

I struggle with the ideas of minimum wage and social medicine. I am a big believer in free market, supply and demand, but also see benefits to both sides of the arguments. Times are certainly changing. Serving fries used to be a part time job for our youth, now it needs to provide a living wage? Just know that increasing minimum wage can lead to the elimination of those entry level jobs. We are already seeing an increase in automation and self service in the food and retail sectors. Emergency rooms used to be for emergencies, now they get coughs, runny nose, stomach aches, and prescription refills. Unfortunately free healthcare can lead to abused healthcare. Healthcare benefits used to be an incentive to better ourselves, work harder, and promote up. Now it is demanded as a right.

Self reliance and problem solving are becoming rare traits, and dependency is on a meteoric rise. I can't help but think it is attributed to more and more things becoming a given right, rather than something earned.

I like the work farms, and somebody else mentioned the conservation corps. I think if these job opportunities were offered, we would see the true population that chooses not to work. If you require gov't assistance, than you must provide labor or a service in exchange for it. Many of our parks were built by conservation corps. The main difference is there was very little work to be found back then. Today we have plenty of work available. It may not be a the work you are looking for, but it is work! I have worked many jobs that I did not like, and that were not in my desired field, but it was work, and it was a paycheck. Too many people today only want a certain type of work, and refuse what is available. Gov't assistance should not be for people who don't want to accept the jobs that are available. Is someone in need of assistance if they paid tens of thousands for a degree in European History, and now they can't find work in that field?

If we save everyone from the consequences of their bad decisions, than we are all bound to repeat those same bad decisions.
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:24 PM
 
96 posts, read 89,210 times
Reputation: 162
"Three simple rules to join the middle class: finish high school, get a full-time job, don't get married or have kids before 21.
Only 2% of Americans who meet these specifications are in poverty, regardless of their race, religion, or gender. The narrative pushed by the regressive left is that this is a nation of prejudice which favors white skin over black skin, Christians over Muslims, and men over women. However, these statistics speak for themselves. America is a meritocracy, and success is possible for anyone willing to work for it."

https://mavenroundtable.io/roamingmi...UK-l3qAduhgjA/
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Old 08-11-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,799 posts, read 1,470,533 times
Reputation: 2906
Quote:
Originally Posted by colobill View Post

I Emergency rooms used to be for emergencies, now they get coughs, runny nose, stomach aches, and prescription refills. Unfortunately free healthcare can lead to abused healthcare. Healthcare benefits used to be an incentive to better ourselves, work harder, and promote up. Now it is demanded as a rig


If we save everyone from the consequences of their bad decisions, than we are all bound to repeat those same bad decisions.
No one should be homeless because of medical debt and yes it happens. Hospitals should not be run like a business other first world countries have it figured out hopefully the US will to in time. Ultimately I think in this thread we have determined that for the majority of homeless it is due to factors outside there control and continuing to penalize them by preventing them from making a living wage or healthcare for all is in my opnion the path of the USA becoming more like a third world country. Having a large underclass also leads to more instability and I think it would be prudent to nip this problem in the bud and create a America that benefits all Americans not just the wealthy.

Last edited by BornintheSprings; 08-11-2018 at 03:07 PM..
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